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#7122910 - 03/25/18 09:26 PM Update on load development for 308 Howa
Olshovel Offline
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Registered: 08/04/13
Posts: 94




Here are the results from my day at the range. I shot the first six rounds that I had loaded 9 thousandths off the lands, but would not fit into my magazine, and the second batch of six that were loaded as long as I could load them and still load into the mag. I am not sure that I gathered that much from my day and wanted to see if any of you see something I don't. I do think that the 6 rounds loaded 9 thou off the lands grouped better than the same powder charges loaded to fit into the magazines! I did not really notice anything grouping closer together when shooting the different charge weights. Rounds 11 and 12 look pretty good as long as they were not a fluke! What do you guys see here?

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#7122933 - 03/25/18 10:03 PM Re: Update on load development for 308 Howa [Re: Olshovel]
FiremanJG Online   content
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Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 26349
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
This is why a ladder test needs to be shot at 300+. The farther out, the easier it is to read. But, ignoring the first group, since you can't fit in the mag anyway (no disrespect, but I would have never loaded and shot them, does no good). Looking at the lower test first, I saw that #9 and #10 were a horizontal line, and that is good. Then I looked at your velocities, they are the same. #11 and #12 cut the same hole, but varying velocities, still worth group shoots though.

Those charge weights are where I would focus.
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#7123249 - 03/26/18 10:04 AM Re: Update on load development for 308 Howa [Re: Olshovel]
RiverRider Offline
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Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 8223
Loc: Wise Co.
One caveat here about those velocities: depending on your chronograph, they may or may not be reliable numbers. I have seen demonstrations of one chrono pitted against another, the two compared being a Shooting Chrony and a Oehler 35P (which actually measures each shot two times). All shots were fired over BOTH units which were arranged back-to-back. The Chrony turned in averages that were very close to the averages given by the Oehler, but discrepancies between the two on individual shots were large---up to 60 or 70 fps. With shot-to-shot accuracy like that, stats yielded by a Shooting Chrony might be completely worthless. I suspect this may be true for any economy optical chronograph, and I think it's most likely because of the very close spacing of the optical sensors on the compact units. The Ohler uses a sensor spacing of 2.5 feet for the first reading and 5 feet for the second reading. The Oehler is the best optical system out there. To do any better you'd have to go to a Magnetospeed or a Labradar.
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#7123262 - 03/26/18 10:29 AM Re: Update on load development for 308 Howa [Re: Olshovel]
ChadTRG42 Online   happy
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Registered: 09/16/09
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Loc: Lewisville, TX
I honestly don't understand what's going on here. With the variety of ammo with only 1 round each shot at 100 yards, what are you wanting to see? You are being very detailed in your loading, but the method is not used properly to achieve a usable result.

If you would simply load up 4 rounds each at your max mag length from 44.3 to 45.8, and go shoot some groups at 100 or 200 yards, you will have much more feed back on your rifle and ammo.
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#7123265 - 03/26/18 10:33 AM Re: Update on load development for 308 Howa [Re: ChadTRG42]
FiremanJG Online   content
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Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
I honestly don't understand what's going on here. With the variety of ammo with only 1 round each shot at 100 yards, what are you wanting to see? You are being very detailed in your loading, but the method is not used properly to achieve a usable result.

If you would simply load up 4 rounds each at your max mag length from 44.3 to 45.8, and go shoot some groups at 100 or 200 yards, you will have much more feed back on your rifle and ammo.


He had the technique of a ladder test correct, but he did not use the proper distance to test it.
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#7123266 - 03/26/18 10:34 AM Re: Update on load development for 308 Howa [Re: Olshovel]
ChadTRG42 Online   happy
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Registered: 09/16/09
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Loc: Lewisville, TX
^^ Exactly. The methods used are not being used properly to gain feed back on where a node is.
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#7123282 - 03/26/18 10:45 AM Re: Update on load development for 308 Howa [Re: Olshovel]
Olshovel Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 08/04/13
Posts: 94
Thanks for the input. The chrony is an older Caldwell unit that was given to me, my first time to use it. I looked at shooting the test at 200 yards but I was shooting with a friend and our two boys and didn't want to make everyone wait on me as I walked back and forth and marked shots! I will probably just go ahead and load up 5 of each load starting at 44.9 grains working up and shoot those this weekend. If I am shooting for group size in each of those four loads I assume that 100 yards vs 200 yards is not important?

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#7123337 - 03/26/18 11:30 AM Re: Update on load development for 308 Howa [Re: Olshovel]
wp75169 Online   content
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Registered: 10/11/09
Posts: 4909
Loc: Wills Point
Farther is always better but if you do 100 it will tell you what you need to know. If you wind up with multiple excellent groups you will need to move our further. This is a good thing. It means you have a shooter.

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#7123353 - 03/26/18 11:45 AM Re: Update on load development for 308 Howa [Re: Olshovel]
FiremanJG Online   content
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Registered: 12/16/08
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Loc: Wolfe City, TX
When group shooting at 100 yards, you may end up scrutinizing in 1/16" or smaller. At 200+ yards the "bad" groups will open up more, and be easier to see versus the good group.
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#7123364 - 03/26/18 11:52 AM Re: Update on load development for 308 Howa [Re: Olshovel]
Olshovel Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 08/04/13
Posts: 94
I will probably shoot these at 200 yards and take my time.

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#7127719 - 03/30/18 06:24 AM Re: Update on load development for 308 Howa [Re: Olshovel]
Korean Redneck Online   content


Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 2622
Loc: Houston
Once again a beginners perspective, while I get what chat and others at higher proficiency levels tend to think but I think you're on the right track.

Part of this whole thing for folks like u and I is to learn reloading by doing. Within boundaries of safety, experiment. If u wanna load a few that's too long for your mag but give you high degree of accuracy, then go for it. At least you're learning something about your set up and reloading.

But I do totally agree about the distance comment. I used to believe in same basic principle that accuracy holds over, let's say within a few hundred yards. Totally not true. Can't explain because I'm still a novice but I've seen it myself from 100-400.

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#7127808 - 03/30/18 08:31 AM Re: Update on load development for 308 Howa [Re: Olshovel]
Buzzsaw Online   content
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Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 13790
Loc: Frisco, Texas
nice test

I approve these on .308's as the barrels will last for ever.

Remember the limitations of your rifle itself.....just sayin
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#7128280 - 03/30/18 06:13 PM Re: Update on load development for 308 Howa [Re: Korean Redneck]
Smokey Bear Online   content
Tracker

Registered: 05/11/17
Posts: 782
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Korean Redneck
Once again a beginners perspective, while I get what chat and others at higher proficiency levels tend to think but I think you're on the right track.

Part of this whole thing for folks like u and I is to learn reloading by doing. Within boundaries of safety, experiment. If u wanna load a few that's too long for your mag but give you high degree of accuracy, then go for it. At least you're learning something about your set up and reloading.

But I do totally agree about the distance comment. I used to believe in same basic principle that accuracy holds over, let's say within a few hundred yards. Totally not true. Can't explain because I'm still a novice but I've seen it myself from 100-400.


Good post redneck. Loading and shooting is the best way to learn. Keep doing what works and abandon or modify what does not. I think for a new loader, trying different techniques, to understand cause and effect, is the best way to learn to consistently make ammo that meets or exceeds your expectations.
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#7130848 - 04/02/18 08:55 PM Re: Update on load development for 308 Howa [Re: Olshovel]
Olshovel Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 08/04/13
Posts: 94
[img]http://texashuntingforum.co [img]http://texashuntingforum.com/forum/pics/usergals/2018/04/full-47525-143300-img_1153.png[/img]
m/forum/pics/usergals/2018/04/full-47525-143299-img_1152.jpg[/img]

I went out this weekend and shot the three loads shown on the paper above. The 45.2 grain loads were the top left target as shown, (I did have the target mounted sideways), 45.5 grain loads were the top right and the 45.8 grain loads were the bottom left. The chronograph data is incomplete because I forgot to look at it a couple of times. I had a friend spotting for me as I shot. What do you guys see as you look over these? I shot this round at 200 yards "round robin" style where I shot 1 of each load at its target working around until all rounds had been shot. So, 45.2 at top left target, 45.5 at top right target, 45.8 at bottom left target, cool, load mag, repeat. I guess from here I need to load up some more of the 45.8 grain loads based on the lower left target? The target only shows four holes, but that is because there are three rounds through the spot that looks like two. I am going to assume I pulled the other two??? I did shoot five more rounds of factory Federal Premium 175 grain SMK's after I shot my hand loaded stuff. Two on a 12x24 target at 400 yards, both hits, and three at a 12x18 target at 500 yards, all three hits. I think I just need to load up a bunch and just get some more time behind the rifle. I may also try loading up some heavier hand loads, the 1 in 10 twist might like them better! I can see how someone with just a little bit of anal retentiveness could really get wrapped up in this!

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#7130852 - 04/02/18 08:57 PM Re: Update on load development for 308 Howa [Re: Olshovel]
Olshovel Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 08/04/13
Posts: 94


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