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Feb 12th, 2024
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 Re: Bergmann's Rule
[Re: redchevy]
#7119510
03/22/18 02:03 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,476
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,476 |
If you take supplemental feeding out of the question and agriculture how much do south texas bucks weigh? Most of the deer I see or hear about being well over 200 lbs are very well fed.
On a place we used to hunt in the hill country we observed long term dressed weights increase by about 20 lbs by bringing population numbers down. There were some 200 lb field dress deer killed in parts of South Texas back in the 60's and 70's in areas within CC and in wet years well before HF and feed was the craze. We probably had 200lb hill country deer before fire suppression So leaving out the protein feed and the exceptions to the rule in wet years, what would you consider to be an average weight for a mature south texas buck? Not the biggest one, but an average one? dressed or live? Be ranch dependent, and all honesty with habitat manipulation it’s really hard to just give a blanket average. From my experience 170 -180 pretty easy. 200 would not be out of the question. But at same aspect in northern panhandle we hit 200lb dressed pretty regularly.
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Re: Bergmann's Rule
[Re: chital_shikari]
#7119523
03/22/18 02:14 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,549
redchevy
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,549 |
Bobo, so 170-180 lb dressed?
I know you cant make a study out of our place, but Duval Co. is south texas to me. For the last 11 years our biggest bucks 5-9 years old have weight about 180-185 live. We are probably a little high on density, but we do feed over 10k lbs of protein a year on 300 acres LF and the neighbors feed free choice year round also.
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe we have way too many deer, maybe we are just in an area with genetic lines for slightly smaller deer, but for non protein fed non ag land, the 200 lbs dressed seems a bit high to me, especially for an average. I do know we have weighed every deer we have shot and the largest was 186 lbs 6.5 year old.
Not saying it cant be, just sharing my observations. I know if we could keep the population down a little more it might all be different.
Last edited by redchevy; 03/22/18 02:16 PM.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Bergmann's Rule
[Re: chital_shikari]
#7119545
03/22/18 02:38 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,424
jeffbird
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,424 |
For the years I hunted in La Salle County, mature bucks were averaging 220+. The heaviest I ever personally took was 245 live weight on the scales. They put out cotton seed as a supplement. The properties had agressive management plans to keep the population number down and the buck:doe ratio in balance. Guys often worried that management plan was shooting too many does, but there were always deer and they were in excellent condition. One of the harder decisions was during the extreme drought in 2011. We cut the population very hard so those left would have adequate food and water.
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Re: Bergmann's Rule
[Re: redchevy]
#7119557
03/22/18 02:46 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,476
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,476 |
Bobo, so 170-180 lb dressed?
I know you cant make a study out of our place, but Duval Co. is south texas to me. For the last 11 years our biggest bucks 5-9 years old have weight about 180-185 live. We are probably a little high on density, but we do feed over 10k lbs of protein a year on 300 acres LF and the neighbors feed free choice year round also.
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe we have way too many deer, maybe we are just in an area with genetic lines for slightly smaller deer, but for non protein fed non ag land, the 200 lbs dressed seems a bit high to me, especially for an average. I do know we have weighed every deer we have shot and the largest was 186 lbs 6.5 year old.
Not saying it cant be, just sharing my observations. I know if we could keep the population down a little more it might all be different. No, live. About what we ran in Webb. We culled pretty heavy for two years, so that’s 4.5-toothless, so that average is probably light, I bet it gets higher on the mature bucks going forward. Last one I shot was I think 7.5 year old, heavy rainfall year, and was 192 +- live weight I think (been 2 years) , If you are in the golden triangle of STX 200lb live weight would be pretty obtainable IMO. I’m not a Stx expert, haven’t hunted in intensively enough to have enough long term data compared to what I have panhandle and hill country. South TX is a large area. Hell in western Mcculloch we kill 180lb deer pretty regularly now, and that’s no protein, yet you go south east portion of the county and you are looking at 150lbs.
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Re: Bergmann's Rule
[Re: chital_shikari]
#7119568
03/22/18 02:54 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,549
redchevy
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,549 |
Ok thanks, we are not in the triangle but not far from it.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Bergmann's Rule
[Re: chital_shikari]
#7119839
03/22/18 07:07 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,952
txtrophy85
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,952 |
Remember a lot of these ranches will only have 1 deer to 20-25 acres or so native country no supplemental feeding.
Some areas are more dense than others but i remember as a kid we did a survey on my uncles place and on 1200 acres the biologist estimated there was only 50-60 deer on it
We have sold some country where it’s old family stuff not being hunted but not fed either and the numbers fall into this range as well
Deer have more food so they have a better chance of achieving bigger body weights
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: Bergmann's Rule
[Re: redchevy]
#7119970
03/22/18 09:35 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,383
nsmike
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,383 |
Wonder how elephants in Africa compare in size to whooley mamoths that I would "think" lived in colder climates.  The Colombian mammoth is the biggest, then African elephant, then Woolly mammoth, the medium gray one is an Asian elephant. There is a different rule of size at play with elephants, the larger an animal is, the better it can digest roughage.
for every stereotype there's a prototype don't be the prototype
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