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#7108073 - 03/11/18 03:25 PM Levergun love ~ 30-30 Ackley Improved
Ranch Dog Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 1708
Loc: Cuero
I have a Rossi Rio Grande chambered in 30-30 Win that has been getting its share of range or hog time and I had a rifle rechambered to 30-30 Ackley Improved years ago that I regret moving. I thought it might be time to take this little-used rifle through the change.

I rented the necessary tools and did it myself as I could not find gunsmith locally, just Lego block builders. It took about an hour and is up and running!



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#7108130 - 03/11/18 04:41 PM Re: Levergun love ~ 30-30 Ackley Improved [Re: Ranch Dog]
DocHorton Online   content
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Registered: 12/06/10
Posts: 5263
Loc: DFW
Forgive my ignorance, but what is the difference from a regular 30-30 and what is the benefit of doing this?

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#7108159 - 03/11/18 05:14 PM Re: Levergun love ~ 30-30 Ackley Improved [Re: Ranch Dog]
FiremanJG Online   content
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Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 26056
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
I didn't know there was a .30-30 Ackley Improved. Learn something new every day.
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#7108160 - 03/11/18 05:17 PM Re: Levergun love ~ 30-30 Ackley Improved [Re: DocHorton]
FiremanJG Online   content
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Originally Posted By: DocHorton
Forgive my ignorance, but what is the difference from a regular 30-30 and what is the benefit of doing this?


The reasons to Ackley Improve a cartridge is greater case capacity, which means more powder, which means more velocity. And the sharper shoulder angle does not allow brass to flow as much, almost eliminating trimming. The case geometry is quite efficient based on my recent experimenting with 7mm-08 A.I.
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#7108169 - 03/11/18 05:35 PM Re: Levergun love ~ 30-30 Ackley Improved [Re: Ranch Dog]
kmon1 Offline
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Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 23488
Loc: Texas
Jason covered the Ackley cartridges very well. Reading some of his books it was clear he liked tinkering with cartridge design and also wrote about pressure destruction of various action rifles of the day.

Many Ackley cartridges have the same headspace location and measurement as the parent round but the case is expanded to almost no body taper and a 40 degree shoulder angle.

Look up some of his writings about cartridges and rifles, some easy informative reading that is also entertaining. Note in reloading manuals like hot load, next entry with more powder, primer fell out, next entry Case head separation, too hot do not use. Just little things like that.



Edited by kmon1 (03/11/18 09:25 PM)
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#7108183 - 03/11/18 05:52 PM Re: Levergun love ~ 30-30 Ackley Improved [Re: Ranch Dog]
Brother in-law Online   content
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Registered: 07/08/07
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What's the point on a 3030 ? Seems like the pain wouldn't be worth the gain

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#7108193 - 03/11/18 06:01 PM Re: Levergun love ~ 30-30 Ackley Improved [Re: Brother in-law]
okie44 Offline
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Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 885
Loc: N W Louisiana.
Originally Posted By: Brother in-law
What's the point on a 3030 ? Seems like the pain wouldn't be worth the gain


Some of us have to tinker. up
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[img:center][/img]


Edited by okie44 (03/11/18 06:07 PM)
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#7108401 - 03/11/18 09:05 PM Re: Levergun love ~ 30-30 Ackley Improved [Re: Ranch Dog]
Ranch Dog Offline
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Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 1708
Loc: Cuero
Looks like Fireman got the why covered and glad to see others tinkering with the same.
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#7108464 - 03/11/18 10:59 PM Re: Levergun love ~ 30-30 Ackley Improved [Re: Ranch Dog]
tehachapi Offline
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Registered: 03/18/13
Posts: 274
Loc: Harris County
The Winchester .307 is capable of higher velocities, but there aren't a bunch of them out there.

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#7108556 - 03/12/18 07:05 AM Re: Levergun love ~ 30-30 Ackley Improved [Re: Ranch Dog]
okie44 Offline
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Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 885
Loc: N W Louisiana.
Ranch Dog have you worked with the strain gauge on the AI version?
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#7108740 - 03/12/18 09:35 AM Re: Levergun love ~ 30-30 Ackley Improved [Re: tehachapi]
Ranch Dog Offline
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Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 1708
Loc: Cuero
Originally Posted By: tehachapi
The Winchester .307 is capable of higher velocities, but there aren't a bunch of them out there.

True, same with the 308ME. 307 Win brass is a tough find and expensive, or a duty to make. A levergun chambered in 307 Win is going to cost you $1K to $2.5K. This is more about using a firearm that you already have. I bought the Rossi Rio Grande NIB for $300 shipped to my FFL. Bought two, one was sent to JES to be rebored-rechambered to 38-55 Win.

Originally Posted By: okie44
Ranch Dog have you worked with the strain gauge on the AI version?

Yes, I have. On my Marlin 336A, I did a bunch of testing. The were no surprises running it between 40K & 45K. I ran two like rifle together, one in 30-30 and one in AI. On another forum, I was explaining the use of Go, No-Go, and Field gauges with a leveraction, but you can see the strain gauge on this Rossi. I ended up tearing it off, but these things have a life limit, and it was exceeded. Little buggers are about $35 each.



What you do notice, and this goes back to the bolt trust stuff of a bottlenecked vs. tapered/straight walled case, is that the AI functions as a knife through butter. The tapered/straight walled case of the parent cartridge becomes tough to extract the more pressure you apply to it. Of course, the other side of this is without the extraction indications; it is easier to get it trouble as you push it harder. Among the POA fans that say the improvement can handle more pressure because of less pressure being placed on the bolt and locking bolt; I've seen a couple of levergun KABOOMs, and I've never seen a bolt or locking bolt fail, it is the barrel that departs the receiver. Pressure is pressure on the weakest part, and that is where the threads have been cut in both barrel and receiver.

The gain in the 30-30 AI besides the shape and it's effect on pressure, is approximately 1.4-grains of H20. The utility of the AI is in getting to the SAAMI pressure limits of the parent cartridge (42K PSI). Typically, with the 30-30 you are compressing the charge to get near that pressure. If you are reloading with a cast bullet, the powder compression & lube on the bullet is making it tough to seat and crimp unless you are combining the step. Forget using a Factory Crimp Die. Plus, you are driving pressure up with the compression, but velocity is no longer responding linearly. The AI lets you run both pressure and velocity up without exceeding 100% of the usable case capacity.

RangerPoint Precision, in Cypress, has a lot of good information about their RRP3030AX and the 3030AI. I tried to contact them about the work on my Rossi Rio Grande as my sister lives in Cypress and said she would drop the rifle off but they never got back to me. The RPP states that they charge $100 for the AI work, but it said that three years ago. If it is still that, it is a deal because renting the reamer, with +/- pilots, the gauges, and a T-Handle is going to cost you $97 with insurance and postage both ways.

I designed a cast bullet for a fellow that did the RPPAX and then had them rebore-rechamber the rifle to 35 caliber so he had a 35RPPAX.
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#7108756 - 03/12/18 09:49 AM Re: Levergun love ~ 30-30 Ackley Improved [Re: Ranch Dog]
FiremanJG Online   content
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Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 26056
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
^^Educational post sir. Thank you for typing it out. up

A hotrod lever gun, without a new barrel is just plain cool!
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#7109462 - 03/12/18 09:00 PM Re: Levergun love ~ 30-30 Ackley Improved [Re: FiremanJG]
okie44 Offline
Tracker

Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 885
Loc: N W Louisiana.
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
^^Educational post sir. Thank you for typing it out. up

A hotrod lever gun, without a new barrel is just plain cool!


Indeed!


Thanks Ranch Dog. My tinkering has been limited to the 14" Contender pistol. I do have a '62 model 94 that looks to have rode in a gun rack a bunch and shot very little. I've been thinking about the conversion on it. I've got it shooting the RD 165 pretty good.
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#7109727 - 03/13/18 08:59 AM Re: Levergun love ~ 30-30 Ackley Improved [Re: FiremanJG]
redchevy Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 28306
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
^^Educational post sir. Thank you for typing it out. up

A hotrod lever gun, without a new barrel is just plain cool!


x2
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