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"MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles"
#7105983
03/09/18 02:20 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 12,547
chital_shikari
OP
Minor in training
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OP
Minor in training
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 12,547 |
I saw Chad's response to Buzzsaw's post about 140gr ELD-M ammo and had a discussion about it with my dad. Then I asked him if Browning rifles were made in USA, and he said, "Yeah, they're great, but now, with the rifles we've handled (in reference to our rifles and most of the sub-$650 rifles we've handled), if I'm gonna buy it's going to be a Blaser or something." Blaser is the most expensive rifle my dad or I have handled; they're super pretty for sure, but why pay $5000 for something I will not utilize to it's best ability (Americans don't need fancy equipment to fit into large driven hunts or straight-pull bolt actions for them either, for example) In response, I showed him this video. There are some things I disagree with, like the bit about the ammo; you can shoot whatever ammo out of whatever gun, but to have consistent accuracy, you need precision-loaded ammunition. I'm also left wondering about semi-custom rifles, those factory rifles that are bastardized by add-ons such as stocks, triggers, barrels, and other attachments. Anyway, enjoy the video if you do and let me know your thoughts. At the end of the day, any rifle in the hands of the right shooter is a 1000yd rifle (practice practice practice!)
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Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles"
[Re: chital_shikari]
#7106021
03/09/18 02:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 618
Texasteach
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 618 |
Most Browning Rifles are made by Miroku in Japan...
You did what?
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Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles"
[Re: chital_shikari]
#7106054
03/09/18 03:05 PM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,900
Jgraider
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jun 2015
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All I know is that I have a Tikka T3X in 6.5 creed. So far I have tried only factory ammo including Hornady 143 ELDX, Hornady Black 140gr HPBT, Prime 130gr HPBT, Hornady Non Typical 140gr soft points, and Hornady Match 140gr ELDM. It shoots them all well under MOA.
I do want to try Chad's ammo too though.
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Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles"
[Re: chital_shikari]
#7106063
03/09/18 03:24 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,481
redchevy
THF Celebrity
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,481 |
I never knew that all custom rifles had to use custom ammo.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles"
[Re: chital_shikari]
#7106085
03/09/18 03:42 PM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 33,787
Buzzsaw
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Posts: 33,787 |
I tell ya'll looking for a great rifle for around a grand, look no further than the Browning X-Bolt Hells Canyon Long Range. If a crisp, 3.5# trigger is too heavy, Jard and Timney now offer "drop=in" triggers for it. Thing will shoot.
He77 my daughters X-Bolt Micro Midas 20", 7mm-08, shoots under an inch with Hornadys Custom "Lite" ammo.
Great little rifles...
SPACE FOR RENT
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Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles"
[Re: chital_shikari]
#7106091
03/09/18 03:47 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,907
ChadTRG42
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Posts: 18,907 |
These days, most "good" rifles can shoot under MOA. Even basic factory ammo will shoot decent. But the big thing to me is what's on the inside of the ammo. I see my ammo compared to lots of factory ammo. The big negative thing I see on factory ammo is that it's MUCH slower than what's on the box (especially the Hornady 6.5 CM ammo), and has a much higher extreme spread in velocity. Last Friday we tested the 140 BTHP and 143 ELD-X factory ammo. It was running 2540 and 2560 fps, with 2700 fps written on the box. I'm running 2750-2780 fps with the same bullets. That's 200 fps faster than factory ammo. It's watered down!
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Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles"
[Re: redchevy]
#7106110
03/09/18 04:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
J.G.
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Joined: Dec 2008
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I never knew that all custom rifles had to use custom ammo. Well, they don't. You also don't have to put high octane fuel in a steet/race engine, but...
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles"
[Re: chital_shikari]
#7106125
03/09/18 04:13 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 632
505ed
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Oct 2014
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Blaser are excellent rifles. I own 3 frames and 2 bolt assemblies, with 4 different barrels. That is the beauty of the system--being able to break down hold zero and travel in a compact package..that being said I do own a few good customs also.
I will disagree with the last statement--not any rifle is a capable 1000 yard rifle...1000 yards is a long way...I have a Winchester 94 trapper that is exceptionally accurate with it's mounted peep site--but try putting that on steel consistently at 1000 yards.
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Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles"
[Re: 505ed]
#7106135
03/09/18 04:21 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 12,547
chital_shikari
OP
Minor in training
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OP
Minor in training
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 12,547 |
I will disagree with the last statement--not any rifle is a capable 1000 yard rifle...1000 yards is a long way...I have a Winchester 94 trapper that is exceptionally accurate with it's mounted peep site--but try putting that on steel consistently at 1000 yards. Well, let me define one thing and ask you to define another: by "any" I meant bolt-action sporters at MSRPs of around $500-$X. But in your rebuttal, which I concede is a valid one, I ask you: what is consistency for a M1894 Trapper and what does that translate to out to 1000yd?
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Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles"
[Re: J.G.]
#7106146
03/09/18 04:31 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,481
redchevy
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,481 |
I never knew that all custom rifles had to use custom ammo. Well, they don't. You also don't have to put high octane fuel in a steet/race engine, but... I guess I need a sarcasm imoji, the movie stated that custom rifles had to use custom ammo.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles"
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#7106148
03/09/18 04:32 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 15,612
QuitShootinYoungBucks
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Joined: Nov 2012
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These days, most "good" rifles can shoot under MOA. Even basic factory ammo will shoot decent. But the big thing to me is what's on the inside of the ammo. I see my ammo compared to lots of factory ammo. The big negative thing I see on factory ammo is that it's MUCH slower than what's on the box (especially the Hornady 6.5 CM ammo), and has a much higher extreme spread in velocity. Last Friday we tested the 140 BTHP and 143 ELD-X factory ammo. It was running 2540 and 2560 fps, with 2700 fps written on the box. I'm running 2750-2780 fps with the same bullets. That's 200 fps faster than factory ammo. It's watered down! Well, obviously you need to be stamping 2900 on your boxes!
https://web.archive.org/web/20170223065011/http:/www.rrdvegas.com/silencer-cleaning.html
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Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles"
[Re: chital_shikari]
#7106151
03/09/18 04:33 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,823
Drop Tine
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,823 |
Chad, you're over your pm limit. Clean some out and send me a message please.
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Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles"
[Re: chital_shikari]
#7106153
03/09/18 04:34 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,907
ChadTRG42
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Posts: 18,907 |
^^ That's a great idea!!! I've always wondered, when does it count as false advertising? I mean as a shooter, being off 150+ fps on ammo would count as false advertising, IMO.
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Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles"
[Re: Jgraider]
#7106181
03/09/18 05:06 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,655
colt45-90
Texas colt45
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Texas colt45
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,655 |
All I know is that I have a Tikka T3X in 6.5 creed. So far I have tried only factory ammo including Hornady 143 ELDX, Hornady Black 140gr HPBT, Prime 130gr HPBT, Hornady Non Typical 140gr soft points, and Hornady Match 140gr ELDM. It shoots them all well under MOA.
I do want to try Chad's ammo too though. good point, I will be selling a Fierce 6.5 creedmoor, that will shoot with the best, I don't consider my self a good shot, be amazing to see someone like Jason shoot the Fierce.
hold on Newt, we got a runaway
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Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles"
[Re: chital_shikari]
#7106204
03/09/18 05:31 PM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,900
Jgraider
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,900 |
Agree on Hornady's factory stuff being slower. It is especially true in my son's CTR 260 Rem. Mine averaged out as follows using a cheap Chrony:
Tikka T3X 24"bbl. Box Actual Hornady ELDX 2700 2657 Hornady Black 2690 2648 Prime 2851 2795
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Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles"
[Re: chital_shikari]
#7106243
03/09/18 06:23 PM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 33,787
Buzzsaw
THF Celebrity
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 33,787 |
Yep, if I didn't reload, Chad would be my ammo guy. Well worth the money for a real load work up, not like my grab the popular load and roll with it.
SPACE FOR RENT
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Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles"
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#7108871
03/12/18 04:43 PM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 441
VAFish
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 441 |
These days, most "good" rifles can shoot under MOA. Even basic factory ammo will shoot decent. But the big thing to me is what's on the inside of the ammo. I see my ammo compared to lots of factory ammo. The big negative thing I see on factory ammo is that it's MUCH slower than what's on the box (especially the Hornady 6.5 CM ammo), and has a much higher extreme spread in velocity. Last Friday we tested the 140 BTHP and 143 ELD-X factory ammo. It was running 2540 and 2560 fps, with 2700 fps written on the box. I'm running 2750-2780 fps with the same bullets. That's 200 fps faster than factory ammo. It's watered down! What barrel length are you using? SAAMI Specs a 24" barrel for velocity and pressure testing. If you are using a 20" barrel and Hornady tested it in a 24" barrel that could explain the difference in listed velocities. And yes most major manufacturers err on the side of caution and don't run at the maximum pressure specifications. Companies like Underwood, Buffalo Bore, and Double Tap have based their businesses on loading ammunition that just barely is under SAAMI max but gives better performance than the major ammo makers.
"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees. If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children." -- Confucius
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Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles"
[Re: chital_shikari]
#7109031
03/12/18 06:59 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 991
Kevin1
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 991 |
When I see gun discussions, especially custom vs factory reduced to sub MOA accuracy I think about what this guy said the other day: "Roseanne Barr or Jennifer Lopez, both would give the same ending, who would you rather see and hold" I hate comparing it to women and I really don't like personifying guns, but I'll make an exception this time.
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