Yup.

Anyone with enough experience knows that.

That is basic logic. You’re telling me that a rifle can “decide” to one time magically shoot a certain group, then go back to less performance never to do it again.

That is the opposite of logic. Thats like saying a quarterback who completes a hail mary to win a game should just throw the ball in the end zone on every play because it worked that one time. The rifle isnt the only variable in shooting. You can luck into a good group once or twice and its just that, luck.

The football is capable of flying through the air for a touchdown every time though. You’re not focusing on the tool only, which I am. Those variables have no bearing on capability, only what it does under under influence.

I already acknowledged that, and went so far as to say I can’t repeat it every time. I specifically said the rifle is capable of repeating it. My point shows the illogic of their belief that one certain size group doesn’t make a rifle that accurate. It has to be that accurate to get the group in the first place. It’s not luck.

I have a rifle that once printed a three-shot group measuring 0.18 inch. Anyone who tries to tell me it should do it every time should buy that rifle from me. How's THAT for logic?

Do you weigh powder to the kernal?

Do you weight sort brass?

Do you weight sort primers?

Do you weight sort bullets?

Do you clean, anneal, trim, chamfer debur, and neck turn brass?

^^EVERY TIME YOU LOAD

Does the rifle have the exact round count on it as it did the last time you shot for an official group?

Is the powder the exact same lot number as the last time you shot for an official group?

Is the temperature, density altitude, wind speed and direction exactly the same as the last time you shot for an official group?

I’m done trying to explain logic to people who can’t grasp it. Go poop on someone else’s thread. I had a response typed out, but it’s pointless.

Well, it can and not be luck.....

For you to be right, you’d have to assert that you don’t have .18 capable rifle even though it shot that good. That’s illogical.

So you don't have the data, or the answers.

See the trend? You continuously stand on an island by yourself, insisting you are right, even though multiple educated and experienced people tell you, you are not.

There are things you are not understanding here. Reloading is not pure and simple logic, almost nothing in life is as simple as pure logic.

I simply don’t care, because you’re wrong. I had a long response typed out when I realized you’re not going to get it. There comes a point where if you argue with fools long enough, it’s hard to differentiate between the two.

Ignorance can be excused. Willful ignorance is something else.

That's fine don't care. It is a shame your ego will not allow you to admit your wrong and learn.

Not going to understand it?

That's comical.

I laid out a list, and made it easy for you. You have failed to answer any of the list. And I know why, most of your answers will be "no". And even if they were all "yes" that is still no guarantee to produce .1 MOA, they are only ways to help get there.

I have watched Judd shoot real life match winning bench rest rifles. They are straight contours, same size at the action as they are at the muzzle. Bolt action, non-repeater, and not always do they hold .1 MOA.

But you can do it with an AR-15?

Exactly!

The more you know, the more you realize you actually KNOW damned little.

LOL!! Getcha some!

If you have a rifle which is CAPABLE of shooting in the ones.

THEN, it's all about the SHOOTER, NOT the rifle

go back to the 7 basics of shooting.

The true BENCHREST shooters like Judd are the ones who go banannas when a shot strays from the group. Most of these rifles are barely even touched during firing.

After reading what I just wrote, when you talk benchrest, then, I think it does come down to EVERY step of case prep, which most "hunters" never do. One kernel of powder, one case neck not quite concentric, seated a bit crooked, a "puff" of wind will kill a benchrester or the precision longrange benchrest shooter who shoot for group not simply a "hit" on a steel plate

It's certainly capable of it. I've done it a few times.

My answers to your list are that they're irrelevant. Calling a rifle that shoots .1 moa not a .1 moa capable rifle doesn't make any sense.

The only thing I don't understand are why you and Chad are so mad at me. I've never been defensive about your success. Where I would ask a question, you attack. Like I told him, this is a hobby to me. I don't really care if you're better than me, or worse. I'd much rather swap ideas and information. That was the point of the thread before it got raided. He wanted a picture of this group, and I provided it. Apparently, it wasn't good enough for him even though I did exactly what he wanted.

As far as your asking about an AR-15 doing as good as a bolt action; my opinion is that I really don't see a difference. I have several AR's that group below 1/2 moa all the time. I see the same with bolt guns which leads me to believe with the technology today, there probably isn't much of a gap (if there is one). If you go somewhere like AR-15.com, and look at the moa all day challenge, you'll see a lot a very accurate semis. Did I spend a lot of money to assemble them; you bet. One advantage I see with bolt guns, is that you can mess with seating depth more.

I don't hate on bolt guns, but I also don't find them very interesting.

JG

You were really wanting me to come shoot the match this past weekend.

For one, I couldn't get the weekend off, but another reason is your motive would be different than mine. I'd want to go in order to test my skills and keep my ears open to learn something. You'd spend the whole time wanting to catch me in a "gotcha" moment. The other is that I really haven't shot much in the last year. This past weekend was the first time in over a year I've been to a range that had any distance. I'm a little irritated I had that one slight "flyer".

Are you worried about being caught in a gotcha moment? You should be.

Hey tenyearsgone, I've asked you the same question twice over on the "neck sizing only" thread and you haven't answered it. Can you take a look and tell me?

Ten,
First let me say I don't have a dog in this fight. After saying that, and I don't want to insult you. For a rifle to be a legitimate 0.1 MOA weapon it has to do it first time, every time. It may shoot some smaller groups, but the maximum deviation it is going to produce is 0.1 MOA. Whether it's 5 or 50 times, you could take it to the bank, that all shots would fall into the same 0.1 MOA, no exceptions.

A legitimate 0.1 MOA rifle is very, very rare. It is also very valuable. If in fact you have an AR that will put every single shot you fire out of it in the same one tenth minute of angle my hat is off to you. After you repeatedly demonstrate its precision, without exceptions, you can sell it for enough money to keep you in guns and reloading components the rest of your life. However if it won't do that, it is not a 0.1 MOA rifle.
For your sake and good fortune, I truly hope it is what you claim.