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Re: 1/4 MOA [Re: BigPig] #7098760 03/02/18 04:37 PM
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Should one clean the barrel between groups roflmao

Re: 1/4 MOA [Re: SapperTitan] #7098792 03/02/18 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: SapperTitan
Should one clean the barrel between groups roflmao


Not a smart one.


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Re: 1/4 MOA [Re: BigPig] #7098904 03/02/18 06:26 PM
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These are the responses that I expected, and I agree 100% that it may be possible when the stars align, the earth stops spinning, and gravity ceases to exist.

Here is why I ask...



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Re: 1/4 MOA [Re: BigPig] #7098910 03/02/18 06:29 PM
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Now it doesn’t outright say he held 1/4 MOA, but it does imply that he did. Aim small miss small is what I think they were trying to say, but who knows, it’s FB and everything is true in FB


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Re: 1/4 MOA [Re: BigPig] #7099253 03/02/18 11:05 PM
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If your rifle is 1/4 moa at 100, then it's 1/4 moa at further distances. The groups might get larger, but the rifle is still 1/4 moa. An example is that I have several rifles that shoot sub moa. They would still be sub moa at 1000 yards even with a group larger than 1.047 (or whatever the number is). It's really not an audacious claim to make that your sub moa rifle is still sub moa at longer ranges.

A more accurate question (pun intended), would be could you shoot 1/4 inch groups out to those distances mentioned.

https://www.nssf.org/shooting/minute-angle-moa/

Re: 1/4 MOA [Re: tenyearsgone] #7099269 03/02/18 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: tenyearsgone
If your rifle is 1/4 moa at 100, then it's 1/4 moa at further distances. The groups might get larger, but the rifle is still 1/4 moa. An example is that I have several rifles that shoot sub moa. They would still be sub moa at 1000 yards even with a group larger than 1.047 (or whatever the number is). It's really not an audacious claim to make that your sub moa rifle is still sub moa at longer ranges.

A more accurate question (pun intended), would be could you shoot 1/4 inch groups out to those distances mentioned.

https://www.nssf.org/shooting/minute-angle-moa/


That’s what my question was. Could YOU

And technically 1/4 MOA at 1000 would be 2.6175 inches, but we will call it 2.5inches for simplicity.


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Re: 1/4 MOA [Re: tenyearsgone] #7099287 03/02/18 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted By: tenyearsgone
If your rifle is 1/4 moa at 100, then it's 1/4 moa at further distances. The groups might get larger, but the rifle is still 1/4 moa. An example is that I have several rifles that shoot sub moa. They would still be sub moa at 1000 yards even with a group larger than 1.047 (or whatever the number is). It's really not an audacious claim to make that your sub moa rifle is still sub moa at longer ranges.

A more accurate question (pun intended), would be could you shoot 1/4 inch groups out to those distances mentioned.

https://www.nssf.org/shooting/minute-angle-moa/


To put a finer point on it, the rifle should be the same regardless of distance, but ammo definitely is not, and of course the wind really is the huge variable.

Re: 1/4 MOA [Re: BigPig] #7099294 03/03/18 12:03 AM
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I could maintain 1/4 minute of barn to 1,000 yards with no problem, possibly 1/8.


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Re: 1/4 MOA [Re: tenyearsgone] #7099490 03/03/18 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted By: tenyearsgone
If your rifle is 1/4 moa at 100, then it's 1/4 moa at further distances. The groups might get larger, but the rifle is still 1/4 moa. An example is that I have several rifles that shoot sub moa. They would still be sub moa at 1000 yards even with a group larger than 1.047 (or whatever the number is). It's really not an audacious claim to make that your sub moa rifle is still sub moa at longer ranges.


Well, that is completely untrue.

Plenty of times there have been good shooting, 1/4 MOA, 100 yard rifles, with a poor ES. Run that poor ES a quarter mile or farther, and it will begin to open up.


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Re: 1/4 MOA [Re: BigPig] #7099497 03/03/18 03:33 AM
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Originally Posted By: BigPig
That’s what my question was. Could YOU


Yes, I can shoot the rifle that tight.
I cannot judge the wind that tight, and I relly don't want to put the time in to build ammo that will do it beyond 500. Judd and I, and Chad and I discussed it today. Lots of extra work will come into play, and I just don't want to go through the trouble.


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Re: 1/4 MOA [Re: J.G.] #7099540 03/03/18 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: tenyearsgone
If your rifle is 1/4 moa at 100, then it's 1/4 moa at further distances. The groups might get larger, but the rifle is still 1/4 moa. An example is that I have several rifles that shoot sub moa. They would still be sub moa at 1000 yards even with a group larger than 1.047 (or whatever the number is). It's really not an audacious claim to make that your sub moa rifle is still sub moa at longer ranges.


Well, that is completely untrue.

Plenty of times there have been good shooting, 1/4 MOA, 100 yard rifles, with a poor ES. Run that poor ES a quarter mile or farther, and it will begin to open up.


You’re not understanding the point. You teach shooting, this is a basic concept.

Re: 1/4 MOA [Re: BigPig] #7099546 03/03/18 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted By: BigPig
Originally Posted By: tenyearsgone
If your rifle is 1/4 moa at 100, then it's 1/4 moa at further distances. The groups might get larger, but the rifle is still 1/4 moa. An example is that I have several rifles that shoot sub moa. They would still be sub moa at 1000 yards even with a group larger than 1.047 (or whatever the number is). It's really not an audacious claim to make that your sub moa rifle is still sub moa at longer ranges.

A more accurate question (pun intended), would be could you shoot 1/4 inch groups out to those distances mentioned.

https://www.nssf.org/shooting/minute-angle-moa/


That’s what my question was. Could YOU

And technically 1/4 MOA at 1000 would be 2.6175 inches, but we will call it 2.5inches for simplicity.


No one ever could keep the same group unless you intentionally sandbagged your 100 yard group, and tailored loads to each distance.. It’s a statistical and logical improbability. Even with a perfect .00000000 moa weapon; it’s always going to open up at farther ranges.


Re: 1/4 MOA [Re: tenyearsgone] #7099549 03/03/18 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted By: tenyearsgone
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: tenyearsgone
If your rifle is 1/4 moa at 100, then it's 1/4 moa at further distances. The groups might get larger, but the rifle is still 1/4 moa. An example is that I have several rifles that shoot sub moa. They would still be sub moa at 1000 yards even with a group larger than 1.047 (or whatever the number is). It's really not an audacious claim to make that your sub moa rifle is still sub moa at longer ranges.


Well, that is completely untrue.

Plenty of times there have been good shooting, 1/4 MOA, 100 yard rifles, with a poor ES. Run that poor ES a quarter mile or farther, and it will begin to open up.


You’re not understanding the point.



O really... Please expand on this point please.


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Re: 1/4 MOA [Re: BigPig] #7099552 03/03/18 04:33 AM
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Read the link.

Why is something so easy escaping your grasp? A 1/4 moa gun is still 1/4 moa at 3000 yards even if the group opens up.

Re: 1/4 MOA [Re: tenyearsgone] #7099553 03/03/18 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted By: tenyearsgone
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: tenyearsgone
If your rifle is 1/4 moa at 100, then it's 1/4 moa at further distances. The groups might get larger, but the rifle is still 1/4 moa. An example is that I have several rifles that shoot sub moa. They would still be sub moa at 1000 yards even with a group larger than 1.047 (or whatever the number is). It's really not an audacious claim to make that your sub moa rifle is still sub moa at longer ranges.


Well, that is completely untrue.

Plenty of times there have been good shooting, 1/4 MOA, 100 yard rifles, with a poor ES. Run that poor ES a quarter mile or farther, and it will begin to open up.


You’re not understanding the point. You teach shooting, this is a basic concept.



Basic concepts are one thing. Real world performance is another. You're way out in the weeds.


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Re: 1/4 MOA [Re: BigPig] #7099559 03/03/18 04:39 AM
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This isn’t about “real world” performance. This is a fact (a rather basic one). I’m not even debating other factors. They don’t matter.

A shooter would still have a 1/4 moa rifle at 4 miles no matter what he did wrong. He may have a 20 foot group, but it’s still 1/4 moa.

Re: 1/4 MOA [Re: BigPig] #7099561 03/03/18 04:41 AM
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I am not arguing with an idiot tonight. I got chit to do tomorrow.


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Re: 1/4 MOA [Re: BigPig] #7099563 03/03/18 04:43 AM
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I give up. It’s a rather simple concept. Apparently the NSSF are idiots too.....

If I have 1/4 moa rifle; it’s still 1/4 moa at 1000 yards shooting about 2.6 inches. What defines 1/4 moa changes as distance changes.

Re: 1/4 MOA [Re: BigPig] #7099565 03/03/18 04:49 AM
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You are reading things into what I assume is NSSF's definition of MOA. What JG has tried to explain to you is fact---just because a rifle is shooting MOA at 100 does not mean it will be shooting MOA at 1000. There are reasons for this, and they have EVERYTHING to do with real world performance. You are already in a hole. Stop digging, put the shovel down, and listen.


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Re: 1/4 MOA [Re: BigPig] #7099567 03/03/18 04:51 AM
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Show me this 1/4 MOA rifle. We get the concept sherlock holmes.


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Re: 1/4 MOA [Re: BigPig] #7099568 03/03/18 04:54 AM
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Tenyearsgone hasn’t said anything that’s incorrect. Y’all just ain’t pickin’ up what he’s puttin’ down.

Re: 1/4 MOA [Re: Sneaky] #7099570 03/03/18 04:55 AM
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Originally Posted By: Sneaky
Tenyearsgone hasn’t said anything that’s incorrect. Y’all just ain’t pickin’ up what he’s puttin’ down.
we aren’t on his level

Re: 1/4 MOA [Re: RiverRider] #7099580 03/03/18 05:17 AM
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Originally Posted By: RiverRider
You are reading things into what I assume is NSSF's definition of MOA. What JG has tried to explain to you is fact---just because a rifle is shooting MOA at 100 does not mean it will be shooting MOA at 1000. There are reasons for this, and they have EVERYTHING to do with real world performance. You are already in a hole. Stop digging, put the shovel down, and listen.


It’s not just their opinion. It’s a scientific fact acknowledged by everyone who understands. His opinion doesn’t matter and is illogical. Frankly, I’m shocked such a basic concept eludes him.

This is about a rifle’s easily achievable capability, not someone’s ability miraculously changing at long range. I was pointing out OP’s misnomer of a question in an attempt to educate him.

Re: 1/4 MOA [Re: Bee'z] #7099581 03/03/18 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted By: 2Beez
Show me this 1/4 MOA rifle. We get the concept sherlock holmes.


I didn’t measure that particular group, but I just posted one in the ammo section that probably shot 1/4 moa today. That’s the innaccurate load too.

My 1/4 moa rifles have been posted and discussed before.

Re: 1/4 MOA [Re: tenyearsgone] #7099582 03/03/18 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted By: tenyearsgone
Originally Posted By: RiverRider
You are reading things into what I assume is NSSF's definition of MOA. What JG has tried to explain to you is fact---just because a rifle is shooting MOA at 100 does not mean it will be shooting MOA at 1000. There are reasons for this, and they have EVERYTHING to do with real world performance. You are already in a hole. Stop digging, put the shovel down, and listen.


It’s not just their opinion. It’s a scientific fact acknowledged by everyone who understands.

This is about a rifle’s easily achievable capability, not someone’s ability miraculously changing at long range. I was pointing out OP’s misnomer of a question in an attempt to educate him.
what a rifle chambered in a slow bullet. It may shoot 1/4 MOA at 100 but the bullet becomes too slow and unstable at further distances and will be nowhere close to 1/4 MOA. A gun is only as good as its ammo and ammo is only as good as the gun and it takes both being good to be consistent from 100-1000 yards.

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