Going on a Defiance Deviant action , no doubt?

Of course not.

Which bottom metal/magazine did you go with? Will the magazine support the overall cartridge length with these long bullets when seated near the lands?

If you want a long 22 cal bullet get the Berger 90gr target VLD 1.25 inches G1 of 0.534
G7 of 0.274. They can be accurate but need at least a 1:7 or a little faster twist for them. 3200fps in a 1:8 begins to stabilize them fairly well.

Dee told me to get these.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/101887...d-polymer-black

Can't run them from a mag, have to top load them. For the purpose of this rifle that is a no-go.

But those are some serious missiles.

Sierra's 77 grain SMK will though; if you're looking to use a long bullet. If you haven't used them, give them a try.

You talkin to me?

Fireman, I run the Berger 80.5's over IMR8208xbr in my 223ai and they are a thing of beauty. 24.0gns fireforming loads typically have shot around the 0.2-0.3moa mark and 2700fps from a 22" 7 twist Beanland build. Formed brass loads of 25.2gns are running around 2990, but seems a bit warm as primer pockets on LC brass are loosening up after 5x firings. With Lapua brass, they might hold a little better. The little 223ai is really a cartridge that punches above its weight class.

Edit: I am running the Accurate Mags metal aics pattern mags with the polymer inserts. You can take them down and slide out the insert and dust off your dremel tool skills to relieve a small notch in the front of the spacer halves to allow for the longer COAL from the 80gn class of bullets. Here is a pic of my mags with the 80.5's at 2.45"coal. Also included a pic of the 25.2gn load in my buddie's rifle...it'll do, I guess.

Helpful report!

24.0 gr is where I thought I needed to focus. You and dee have both comfirmed that.

I'll have 2" more barrel, so once fire formed, I should cross over the 3000 fps line.

From what I've read, Lapua will show pressure before LC brass, so you can run hotter. I would think primer pockets on Lapua will hold up well, but only shooting it will tell.

If I am going to get enough brass for the life of the barrel, and figure 5 firings, that tells me I need 600 pieces of brass. That's quite a bit of money and fire forming. I may try my luck and get 400-500 pieces, hoping the primer pockets hold up.

This is beginning to make the case for a $150 hydraulic forming die. Thats less money than all those primers, bullets and powder charges.

The fire forming loads are no slouch, so its not a complete waste of components. **Updated my original post with pics, too.

I do not disagree.

I'm hoping for a matching elevation and windage to my 6.5 Creedmoor, since I have it memorized. We will seee what the fire forming loads do.

.049" !!!!!

I tip my hat to you, sir. That is outstanding!

5x @100yds group from the 80.5's with 24.0gns during fire forming. Small squares are 1/4".

I can not take credit for that group, it's my buddies. But yeah, it's mighty fine.

A good portion of that is precisely loaded ammo, in any case.

Very true.

Good call on the ELD's. I'm playing with the 75gr version for the same reasons as you stated in your earlier posts. Loving the results so far. Plan to actually shoot a few matches with it if I feel brave enough to put down the bigger guns for a minute:)

You probably already know this, but you can use the fireform process to your advantage without giving up anything when making your brass. Most of my serious rigs are running an "AI" or 40 degree shoulder of some sort. I'm a fan, and strong believer in the benefits. However I can't see the benefits of hydro-forming an AI case. That said, I can mix my fireforming loads and "final" loads together and substitute one for the other without having a negative impact on group size. If it does show on target, it's SMALL. Certainly no disadvantage in a steel match.

My method is simple. Go ahead and fireform 30-50 pieces of brass. Work up your "final" load with that brass. At that point you've identified seating depth and MV. Load your virgin brass to the same seating depth, but reduce the charge by 1/2 to 1 full grain depending on case size. Shoot over your chrono adjusting in 1/10th gr increments until you match the speed of your final loads. You're there. The whole process only takes a few minutes and you end up with FF loads that duplicate your "final" load. At that point, you are giving up nothing to run the AI. You just end up using a little less powder on your FF loads.

This method may not work as well if you are at the redline on your final loads. Brass isn't going to last long enough to worry about there anyway. I usually aim for the next to last node before hitting pressure. This method has worked flawlessly on the last 5 AI's I have worked with. Working on an AI version of the new PRC case now. I'm confident I'll get the same results with it.

Robert
Alamo Precision Rifles
aprifles.com

I'm aware fire forming loads shoot tight. The point of hydro forming is simply, fire forming loads are not going to have the same trajectory out to 800 yards as A.I. loads are. Big difference in MV between the two.

I think you missed my point. Adjusting charge weight to match MV of your formed loads solves that issue. Same bullet, same speed = same trajectory, no matter the distance. I think hydro-forming has a place when you are actually moving the entire shoulder forward. I hydro-form my Dasher as it moves .100. An Ackley that is simply altering the shoulder angle and is already headspaced .004 tighter than the parent, not so much. If you've messed with AI's much, then you should realize that the unformed case can generate the same pressures the formed cases do, albeit with a slightly different pressure curve and a different charge weight. When loaded accordingly, you can have fire-formed loads and virgin brass loads shooting the same MV and POI. Try it,or don't.

My A.I. experience has been with 7mm-08 A.I. I had a fire forming load shooting a 162 gr at 2700 MV, and some of those pieces of brass were compressed. Once formed, I added another 2.0 gr of H-Varget (again some pieces were compressed), and the new velocity is 2822 fps MV.

So my A.I. experience showed me that it was physically impossible to make a fire forming load make the same velocity as a formed load. Are you saying that is not the case with .223 A.I. ?

Does that mean if I find a one hole group using virgin brass with a certain charge of powder at certain speed then the fireformed loads will have to have more powder added to match the speed of the virgin brass load? I know that volume of virgin brass tend to be less than fireformed loads.

If you are running a powder with a burn rate slow enough that you can fill the case and not find pressure, then yeah, it may not work. You might have been able to get there using a drop tube..... maybe. I'd bet it would be real close. I usually try to run a powder that will get me as close to 100% without being compressed, so have not run into that issue. The FF load usually ends up around .3-.5gr less to make the same velocity. Again, this hinges on not being at the very top node on your formed load. There is a lot going on with the pressure in the FF load, but it can build equal pressure with the final load with a smaller charge. I've got room to do it with the 75gr ELD and 8208.

As tiny as the kernals are with IMR-8208 I may not get to 100% on fire forming loads. I won't know until I venture into it.

H-Varget being a larger kernal, sure, but I highpy doubt I was going to fit two more full grains of powder in the case. That's what 16 to 20 kernals? I just don't think it would have fit. Most pieces of brass were full, but not compressed. Maybe 5% were compressed.

In my experience with only three 7mm-08 A.I. rifles in the last seven months, the answer was yes. Load the same fire forming charge in formed brass, there's more case volume, so pressure comes down, and speed comes down.