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Re: Poached Bighorn? Or just playing the system?
[Re: dkershen]
#7052612
01/25/18 05:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 183
ScrapIron
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 183 |
i did this in the 90's. i transfered to Utah for 18 months for work and drew a sweet muzzleloader elk tag as a resident, moved back to texas before the hunt. i was nervous about it but carried thru and got popped by a game warden. all he said was congrats and sorry you moved! no ticket no nothing im thinking this boils down to jealous hunters and reputation of the hunter and his fame at guiding sheep hunters.
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Re: Poached Bighorn? Or just playing the system?
[Re: dkershen]
#7052668
01/25/18 06:22 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,239
Double Naught Spy
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,239 |
Yeah, but you didn't intentionally move to Utah for the purpose of scoring a tag, did you?
There are a lot more elk tags than big horn tags.
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Re: Poached Bighorn? Or just playing the system?
[Re: Double Naught Spy]
#7053014
01/25/18 11:22 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,346
Duck_Hunter
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,346 |
Didn’t he pass the wait period after establishing residency in Utah and also have a drivers license from Utah (I believe it was six months)? He was awarded a resident tag from Utah, and that’s the why we are even discussing it.
If so, he was absolutely a resident of Utah, but he violated the spirit of the law in putting in for a resident tag.
He didn't violate the spirit of the law. He violated the actual written law. He became a resident for the sole purpose of obtaining a resident tag. You can't do that as stipulated by Utah law I cited above. He then left Utah and moved back to AZ, but later hunted on a UT resident tag where he was no longer a resident. You don't get to hunt on a resident tag in Utah when you aren't a resident of the state. The statement “he was never a resident of the state,” was what I took issue with. He was a resident of the state and qualified for the tag. If he had waited to move back to Arizona until after he hunted, I don’t believe it would’ve been an issue.
I just turned it on . I was looking bird dogs in the butt this morning.
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Re: Poached Bighorn? Or just playing the system?
[Re: dkershen]
#7053072
01/26/18 12:15 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,796
dogcatcher
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,796 |
He was qualified for the tag when he received it. Utah claims he wasn't because he moved back to Arizona. I wonder if it is actually written in the law that the tag holder must be a resident at the time he uses it. My thoughts is if it is not written in the law, he needed a better attorney.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back. _____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: Poached Bighorn? Or just playing the system?
[Re: dogcatcher]
#7053109
01/26/18 01:00 AM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,346
Duck_Hunter
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,346 |
He was qualified for the tag when he received it. Utah claims he wasn't because he moved back to Arizona. I wonder if it is actually written in the law that the tag holder must be a resident at the time he uses it. My thoughts is if it is not written in the law, he needed a better attorney. DNS is right that the law says you can’t move there just for the purpose of getting a resident tag. By moving back to Arizona between the time he got the tag and the actual hunt, he provided enough to convince a jury his sole intention was to get a resident tag. I agree with you that it needs to be explicitly clear and written in stone (which is why I said spirit of the law, which i said for lack of a better term).
I just turned it on . I was looking bird dogs in the butt this morning.
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Re: Poached Bighorn? Or just playing the system?
[Re: dkershen]
#7053120
01/26/18 01:12 AM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 552
gollygee
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 552 |
I played the preference point game in Colorado for years. When I had enough points to draw the tag I wanted they changed the rules. Screw them! I will not even fly over Colorado.
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Re: Poached Bighorn? Or just playing the system?
[Re: dogcatcher]
#7053168
01/26/18 01:49 AM
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,716
duckhunter175
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,716 |
He was qualified for the tag when he received it. Utah claims he wasn't because he moved back to Arizona. I wonder if it is actually written in the law that the tag holder must be a resident at the time he uses it. My thoughts is if it is not written in the law, he needed a better attorney. Most of the state laws for resident qualification are written that you must establish residency with the 'intent to remain'. They are even written that way in the states that aren't big time western draw states. Lifetime licenses in many states are written the same way. Keeping in mind that most state regulations booklets are summary of the actual state code. Seems he knew exactly what he was doing to circumvent the non-resident system and then moved back to AZ even before the hunt. Probably not a lot he could do at that point except hope for mercy. I just wish that the guy in Denton who poached the 280" buck this year faced the same type of judge. He got a slap on the wrist by comparison for a trophy animal.
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Re: Poached Bighorn? Or just playing the system?
[Re: dogcatcher]
#7053226
01/26/18 02:24 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,468
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,468 |
He was qualified for the tag when he received it. Utah claims he wasn't because he moved back to Arizona. I wonder if it is actually written in the law that the tag holder must be a resident at the time he uses it. My thoughts is if it is not written in the law, he needed a better attorney. I highly doubt his flaw in this situation was his legal counsel. He auction clientele probably was a list of the who’s who of Attorneys, judges, and business men.
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Re: Poached Bighorn? Or just playing the system?
[Re: dkershen]
#7053325
01/26/18 03:57 AM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,239
Double Naught Spy
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,239 |
Well, he can still hunt in Delaware, Hawaii, and Massachusetts as they are not part of the Wildlife Violators Compact which consists of the other 47 states. I don't think they have bighorn in any of those states, LOL and all three could not be much farther away from his Arizona residence, also LOL.
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Re: Poached Bighorn? Or just playing the system?
[Re: dkershen]
#7058298
01/30/18 02:35 PM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,091
Wacm
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,091 |
Yup that's bs. It's just goes to show how crappy the system is. He tried for 21 years with no luck. If he wants it that bad why would someone who just happens to live closer be more entitled. Rules are rules but the system is not perfect and it shows. I don't know this guy but he sounds like a solid guy...not a poacher. He wanted it more then most and tried to work his way in. After 21 years I'd say he deserves amnesty at least. He has givin back in many ways. Bummer
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Re: Poached Bighorn? Or just playing the system?
[Re: dkershen]
#7058381
01/30/18 03:14 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,239
Double Naught Spy
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,239 |
Yup that's bs. It's just goes to show how crappy the system is. He tried for 21 years with no luck. If he wants it that bad why would someone who just happens to live closer be more entitled. Rules are rules but the system is not perfect and it shows. I don't know this guy but he sounds like a solid guy...not a poacher. He wanted it more then most and tried to work his way in. After 21 years I'd say he deserves amnesty at least. He has givin back in many ways. Bummer Yep, like so many poachers that want it, and he wanted it so much more that he was willing to break the law for it. Why should people who live closer be more entitled? Why do most (all?) states charge more for out of state hunters? Why should in state hunters be more entitled? Would you start a campaign to lower the out of state hunting license fees here in Texas? Do you feel strongly enough about your position to try to do something about this inequality that you perceive going on? I highly doubt a Utah governor is going to grant an Arizona citizen amnesty after the Arizona citizen tried broke multiple laws to take something from Utah.
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