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Max Online: 16728 @ 03/25/12 08:51 AM
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#7050780 - 01/24/18 12:12 AM Poached Bighorn? Or just playing the system?
dkershen Online   content


Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 18199
Loc: Denton/Argyle
https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/01/23/p...ighorn-in-utah/

Interesting read. This guy established residency in Utah for the sole purpose of drawing a bighorn tag. Courts said it was illegal and found him guilty of poaching. Costly error on his part on many fronts. Your thoughts?
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#7050799 - 01/24/18 02:42 AM Re: Poached Bighorn? Or just playing the system? [Re: dkershen]
Sneaky Online   content
The "Grouch"

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 18694
Loc: Winters
It seems that he did break the law, though they werenít real specific on just how. The jury was convinced pretty easily. The punishment seems a little steep, though. They donít mess around with bighorn tags.

Heíll just need a rent home in Hawaii, now.
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#7050822 - 01/24/18 05:44 AM Re: Poached Bighorn? Or just playing the system? [Re: dkershen]
Nogalus Prairie Online   content
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Registered: 11/22/10
Posts: 24055
Loc: Corsicana
Heís a good man and was my guide in AZ on my ram. He was above-board on this whole thing. Never tried to hide anything. Lived there the required time. Apparently, the law is you cannot move there just to draw the tag even if you meet the residency requirements. He never disputed the circumstances.

IMO harsh penalty for a good man who has done much for sheep hunting and conservation over the past 40+ years.

He is getting a lot of support from those that actually know him.
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#7050827 - 01/24/18 05:56 AM Re: Poached Bighorn? Or just playing the system? [Re: dkershen]
Sneaky Online   content
The "Grouch"

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 18694
Loc: Winters
Yeah, theyíre treating him like a flat out poacher, and it seems pretty clear thatís not what he is. He could have murdered someone and got off with less.
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#7050831 - 01/24/18 06:08 AM Re: Poached Bighorn? Or just playing the system? [Re: dkershen]
RattlesnakeDan Online   content
Woodsman

Registered: 12/23/17
Posts: 222
Loc: San Antonio
I understand the issue, 21 points is a long time to wait but you can't do what you can't do. Lived in Colorado for many years trying to draw tags from coveted areas only to find out that they would give non residents tags at higher percentages which used to drive us crazy. Threatened to put in the draw as nonresident just to up our chances.
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#7050855 - 01/24/18 06:40 AM Re: Poached Bighorn? Or just playing the system? [Re: Nogalus Prairie]
Pitchfork Predator Online   content
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Registered: 01/25/13
Posts: 13906
Loc: Murphy, TX Dickens county
Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Heís a good man and was my guide in AZ on my ram. He was above-board on this whole thing. Never tried to hide anything. Lived there the required time. Apparently, the law is you cannot move there just to draw the tag even if you meet the residency requirements. He never disputed the circumstances.

IMO harsh penalty for a good man who has done much for sheep hunting and conservation over the past 40+ years.

He is getting a lot of support from those that actually know him.


Is it routine to investigate what would appear to be legal sheep kills in this regard?
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#7050864 - 01/24/18 06:49 AM Re: Poached Bighorn? Or just playing the system? [Re: Pitchfork Predator]
Nogalus Prairie Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/22/10
Posts: 24055
Loc: Corsicana
Originally Posted By: Pitchfork Predator
Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Heís a good man and was my guide in AZ on my ram. He was above-board on this whole thing. Never tried to hide anything. Lived there the required time. Apparently, the law is you cannot move there just to draw the tag even if you meet the residency requirements. He never disputed the circumstances.

IMO harsh penalty for a good man who has done much for sheep hunting and conservation over the past 40+ years.

He is getting a lot of support from those that actually know him.


Is it routine to investigate what would appear to be legal sheep kills in this regard?


IDK. I do know desert sheep tags are very high profile.
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Originally Posted By: Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.



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#7050972 - 01/24/18 08:10 AM Re: Poached Bighorn? Or just playing the system? [Re: dkershen]
Txduckman Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 12913
Loc: Big D
Maybe he should have read the law. At least he still has 3 states to hunt in before he is 79! hammer

It says he can still guide and being a sheep guide all over, he has probably killed everything in North America already.

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#7051047 - 01/24/18 09:06 AM Re: Poached Bighorn? Or just playing the system? [Re: dkershen]
Wytex Online   content
Bird Dog

Registered: 12/07/16
Posts: 418
Loc: Wyoming
He flat out broke the law, yes he poached it. He knew the residency laws and chose to take the shortcut. No way he guided all those years and didn't know the law.

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#7051057 - 01/24/18 09:11 AM Re: Poached Bighorn? Or just playing the system? [Re: dkershen]
EddieWalker Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/06/14
Posts: 1557
Loc: Tyler, TX
I read on another forum that where he screwed up is after he drew the tag, but before he went on the hunt, he moved back to Arizona. He was walking a fine line claiming Utah as his primary residence and still living in Arizona most of the time to get the tag. Maybe if he had remained in Utah a little longer, he might have been OK?

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#7051076 - 01/24/18 09:30 AM Re: Poached Bighorn? Or just playing the system? [Re: dkershen]
Western Offline
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Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 25948
Loc: Wise County Texas
They must have something specific in the law that was not covered in the article, He met the threshold as far as residency it sounds. I wouldn't call it to the level of poaching, in my mind, that's a whole different level done under different circumstances. Most draw states also have concessions iirc for temp residence folks such as military, so their has to be additional written law i'd wager.

Some states also have residency requirements for many things, like working for the state police in Colorado, 12 months there and you can apply and get a job, wonder if they'd fire you if you moved just outside the Colorado line and continued to work your station..

Jury found him guilty, so just thinking there are more "details".
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#7051079 - 01/24/18 09:31 AM Re: Poached Bighorn? Or just playing the system? [Re: EddieWalker]
NDN98 Offline
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Registered: 09/07/09
Posts: 10977
Loc: McKinney, TX
Originally Posted By: EddieWalker
I read on another forum that where he screwed up is after he drew the tag, but before he went on the hunt, he moved back to Arizona. He was walking a fine line claiming Utah as his primary residence and still living in Arizona most of the time to get the tag. Maybe if he had remained in Utah a little longer, he might have been OK?


I was thinking the same thing. Had he lived in Utah until a few weeks after he killed the ram, would he still have been found guilty?

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#7051084 - 01/24/18 09:37 AM Re: Poached Bighorn? Or just playing the system? [Re: dkershen]
BOBO the Clown Online   content
decoy

Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 43368
Loc: Metroplex
Sounds like he didnít think it through enough, should of bought a house, and stayed thier well past the hunt, or not applied the first year.

He made It obvious what he was doing.

Stupid law in my book, but thatís the law. Now he is a convicted poacher...... Iím suprised our normal poaching pitchforks peeps arenít hanging him...

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#7051107 - 01/24/18 09:52 AM Re: Poached Bighorn? Or just playing the system? [Re: dkershen]
Wytex Online   content
Bird Dog

Registered: 12/07/16
Posts: 418
Loc: Wyoming
Well you can't be a resident in 2 states, wonder if he had an Arizona hunting license for a resident the same year. If so he may face even more trouble.
No issues if he had established residency but like BoBo stated he knew exactly what he was doing.
Not sure why residency laws are stupid though.

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#7051110 - 01/24/18 09:53 AM Re: Poached Bighorn? Or just playing the system? [Re: dkershen]
Txduckman Online   content
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Posts: 12913
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