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#7040926 - 01/16/18 07:14 PM 1000 yard 308 question (actually 950 yards)
bigjoe8565 Online   content
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Registered: 06/30/08
Posts: 5157
Loc: Mesquite, Tx
Shot some 168 Amax at 950 this weekend with mixed results. Load was Federal brass, CCI large rifle primers and 45 grains of Win 748. This load produced groups between .400 and .650 at 100 yards. Conditions while we shot we're lite to moderate winds blowing left to right with temps in the 40s. We had solid rest/support under the front and rear of the rifle. Rifle is a Remington 700 varmint, with Timney trigger and B&C Varmint/Tactical stock wearing a Vortex Viper PST 4-16x50. Target was 12x20".

Can the 168 be stable and consistent at 950-1000? If so, should I try to push the round faster to produce a more consistent performance at this range? If the 168 is a dog at these ranges, what if any bullet will work well in a 1:12 twist? I did have one keyhole strike on the plate, but the rest appeared to stay super sonic. I appreciate and feedback you guys can provide.


Edited by bigjoe8565 (01/16/18 08:04 PM)

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#7040968 - 01/16/18 07:30 PM Re: 1000 yard 308 question (actually 950 yards) [Re: bigjoe8565]
Cleric Online   content
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Registered: 03/11/12
Posts: 3050
What does mix results mean?

What velocity was the bullet?

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#7041023 - 01/16/18 08:08 PM Re: 1000 yard 308 question (actually 950 yards) [Re: bigjoe8565]
bigjoe8565 Online   content
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Registered: 06/30/08
Posts: 5157
Loc: Mesquite, Tx
Velocity was 2600. Mixed results would be defined as hitting the target 15% of the time and a number of very close misses. Maybe I should buy a bigger target. grin

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#7041025 - 01/16/18 08:10 PM Re: 1000 yard 308 question (actually 950 yards) [Re: bigjoe8565]
FiremanJG Offline
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Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 23316
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
168 gr A-Max, .30 cal, out of a .308 Win just doesn't have the BC to get to 1k. At least not in most of Texas. It has a G-1 of .475. Seen many a 168 SMK lose trace at 900+, while the 175 SMK kept going.

Two choices:

1. Try a 178 gr ELD-M, G-1 .547 (I think your twist will stabilize it, never tried it in that twist rate)

2. Try a 155 gr Sierra TMK, BC .519. You will stabilize it, and you will make some real MV with it. I'd lay a hundred that it works in your barrel. You increased BC as well as MV.

MV gets you off the starting line, BC gets you to the finish line.
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#7041029 - 01/16/18 08:13 PM Re: 1000 yard 308 question (actually 950 yards) [Re: FiremanJG]
scottfromdallas Offline
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Registered: 06/23/15
Posts: 712
Loc: TX
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG

2. Try a 155 gr Sierra TMK, BC .519. You will stabilize it, and you will make some real MV with it. I'd lay a hundred that it works in your barrel. You increased BC as well as MV.

MV gets you off the starting line, BC gets you to the finish line.


Did you find the stated BC accurate in your testing? It has a fantastic BC for 155s.
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#7041038 - 01/16/18 08:20 PM Re: 1000 yard 308 question (actually 950 yards) [Re: bigjoe8565]
FiremanJG Offline
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Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 23316
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
It's been correct out to 800 yards. They sprinkled pixie dust on that light of a .30 cal bullet to get that BC.

It's been hell on coyotes and hogs, too.
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#7041124 - 01/16/18 08:59 PM Re: 1000 yard 308 question (actually 950 yards) [Re: bigjoe8565]
Cleric Online   content
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Registered: 03/11/12
Posts: 3050
is your ammo hand loads or factory?

what is the velocity variation on your ammo? ES or STD?

As FJ said you are pushing the limits of the bullet at that distance so small variation in velocity can cause you to go transonic at different points

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#7041162 - 01/16/18 09:30 PM Re: 1000 yard 308 question (actually 950 yards) [Re: bigjoe8565]
bigjoe8565 Online   content
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Registered: 06/30/08
Posts: 5157
Loc: Mesquite, Tx
They're hand loads with no more than .1 or .2 grains variation. Since Win 748 meters exceptionally well I used my RCBS Uni Flow Powder measure and weighed every fifth round.

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#7041173 - 01/16/18 09:40 PM Re: 1000 yard 308 question (actually 950 yards) [Re: bigjoe8565]
FiremanJG Offline
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Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 23316
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Originally Posted By: bigjoe8565
weighed every fifth round.


1000 yard .308 Win needs all the help it can get. Good brass, good brass prep, good primers, BC, and weighing EVERY charge that goes in every piece of brass.

I don't know the temp stability of that powder. Hand me that rifle and brass, and I will load it with H-Varget. It doesn't meter well, but it shoots very consistent when weighing every charge.
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#7041174 - 01/16/18 09:41 PM Re: 1000 yard 308 question (actually 950 yards) [Re: bigjoe8565]
patriot07 Online   content
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Registered: 11/06/11
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If you're going unstable before 950, you need to do something different. I was trying to push a 75 grain 223 bullet as far as I could. Printed a 3" group at 500 yards and couldn't touch a 2 MOA plate at 700. Figure out how to get more MV or BC or preferably, both.

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#7041179 - 01/16/18 09:47 PM Re: 1000 yard 308 question (actually 950 yards) [Re: FiremanJG]
bigjoe8565 Online   content
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Registered: 06/30/08
Posts: 5157
Loc: Mesquite, Tx
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: bigjoe8565
weighed every fifth round.


1000 yard .308 Win needs all the help it can get. Good brass, good brass prep, good primers, BC, and weighing EVERY charge that goes in every piece of brass.

I don't know the temp stability of that powder. Hand me that rifle and brass, and I will load it with H-Varget. It doesn't meter well, but it shoots very consistent when weighing every charge.


Good point. I'm going to try the 155s with Varget now that I finally found some.

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#7041190 - 01/16/18 10:08 PM Re: 1000 yard 308 question (actually 950 yards) [Re: bigjoe8565]
FiremanJG Offline
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Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 23316
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
I'd start at 45.0 gr and go up from there. I wouldn't be afraid of 47.0+ gr. Ease up in .3 gr increments, as usual.
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#7041474 - 01/17/18 07:58 AM Re: 1000 yard 308 question (actually 950 yards) [Re: bigjoe8565]
Buzzsaw Online   content
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Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 11515
Loc: Frisco, Texas

1000 yard .308 Win needs all the help it can get. Good brass, good brass prep, good primers, BC, and weighing EVERY charge that goes in every piece of brass.


Jason Hits it RIGHT HERE. I'll get yelled at but in my opinion, .308 is not your Huckleberry at 1000. This is ALLOT further than most think cuz we throw it around here like its 100 yards. 12 twist is tough, the "Palma" guys do it with a hot 155gr with a 30" barrel. If you had 1-10, the 190 VLD might get you there

Will your rifle shoot .5 group at 100yards? this helps too.
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#7041544 - 01/17/18 08:27 AM Re: 1000 yard 308 question (actually 950 yards) [Re: bigjoe8565]
jeffbird Online   content


Registered: 03/09/09
Posts: 2693
I used to shoot 308, 1:12" and other at 1,000 a fair bit.

From personal experience in a 1:12" -

175 Sierra Match King’s will make it reliably and are good quality.

185 Berger Juggernauts are a good choice, but can be hard to find.

155 Palma bullets by Sierra or Berger are good, but did not provide as good of results on paper as the 175 or 185’s.

Seat 0.010" off of contact with the lands.

The bearing surface lengths on Hornady Amaxes varied too much, up to 0.007”, to match the consistency of Sierra or Berger. Have not tried the ELD’s, so they may be more consistent now.

Varget with F210M's is the ticket.

Black Hills brass is what I mostly used, Lapua obviously is excellent.

Trimming and chamfering has to be perfect and consistent. A Giraud is worth the money.

The Wilson trimmer provides excellent results at a lower price, although is much slower.

Do initial load workups at 200 or 300 yards, 100 yards is wasting time other than setting a zero.

Check the load at 500 or 600 yards. It needs to be a solid sub-MOA load, not including the wind. Practice at 500 to learn how to correct for wind, which is the major factor at 1,000, is helpful.

Weigh every round, it matters. The charge can be thrown on a Chargemaster or from the mechanical thrower, but finish it on a beam or very good quality electronic scale.

Runout needs to be 0.003" for best results, less is even better.

Polish the inside of the necks with a copper cleaning brush chucked in a drill held in a vise.

Primer pockets need to be cut with a Sinclair uniformer.

Deburr the inside of the primer hole.

Seat primers with a good hand tool, such as the Sinclair.

The sizing die needs to be set up to set the shoulder back 0.0015" - 0.002" max.

Sorting brass by weight and neck turning never seemed to produce much difference, so I quit those steps.

As Buzz said, everything matters at 1,000.

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#7041654 - 01/17/18 09:31 AM Re: 1000 yard 308 question (actually 950 yards) [Re: bigjoe8565]
redchevy Online   content
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Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 27331
Loc: Texas
I don't know, I have never shot 1000 yards so I'm just asking...

Jeff are you really saying you cant seat primers with a RCBS hand primer that will reach 1000 yards effectively?
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