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#7034707 - 01/11/18 03:28 PM Jarheads new rifle - H&K
dkershen Offline


Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 18628
Loc: Denton/Argyle
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/the-heckler-koch-m27-the-marines-new-rifle-24019

Anyone have a civilian version of this rifle (The HK416)? Thoughts?
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#7034800 - 01/11/18 04:54 PM Re: Jarheads new rifle - H&K [Re: dkershen]
Theringworm Offline
Tracker

Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 529
Loc: Midland, TX
“I could kit out every grunt in the Marine Corps with the coolest sh*t head-to-toe for $100 million,” Neller said. “And I intend to do that.”

Who cares about the gun, this guy ^^^^^^^^ sounds like someone I want on my side! Cool gun by the way.

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#7034860 - 01/11/18 05:58 PM Re: Jarheads new rifle - H&K [Re: dkershen]
FiremanJG Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 25189
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
5.56mm bang
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#7034881 - 01/11/18 06:13 PM Re: Jarheads new rifle - H&K [Re: FiremanJG]
jeffbird Offline


Registered: 03/09/09
Posts: 3100
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
5.56mm bang


Not even a serious option to change right now for a rifleman/infantryman.

Logistics needs to supply all of them and they have to have compatibility with the NATO and allied forces.

5.56 is the universal option at this point.

For an infantryman, the number and weight of rounds is important.

100 rounds of 5.56 is about 2.7 pounds.

100 rounds of 7.62, the only other viable option, is 5.25 pounds.

So for the same amount of weight on the back, they can carry twice as many rounds of 5.56 as 7.62.

A sniper or designated marksman is a whole different issue than guys out on patrol needing to haul as much ammo as possible.

One other factor for the logistics guys, a bullet that uses half as much brass, lead, copper, and powder allows for production of twice as many rounds in a time of war when commodities and supplies may be stretched thin.

Soldiers win battles, logistics can lose a war.

Like Gen. Neller's thinking, nice rifle. up

Hope Leupold will build to the level of quality they are capable of.



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#7034931 - 01/11/18 06:52 PM Re: Jarheads new rifle - H&K [Re: dkershen]
Kevin1 Offline
Tracker

Registered: 04/06/11
Posts: 669
Loc: Allen Tx
.224 valkyrie bolt

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#7034946 - 01/11/18 07:05 PM Re: Jarheads new rifle - H&K [Re: Theringworm]
2Beez Offline
Chihuahua

Registered: 07/17/15
Posts: 10867
Loc: Lake Texoma, TX
Originally Posted By: Theringworm
“I could kit out every grunt in the Marine Corps with the coolest sh*t head-to-toe for $100 million,” Neller said. “And I intend to do that.”

Who cares about the gun, this guy ^^^^^^^^ sounds like someone I want on my side! Cool gun by the way.


GD right flag
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#7034963 - 01/11/18 07:15 PM Re: Jarheads new rifle - H&K [Re: jeffbird]
FiremanJG Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 25189
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Originally Posted By: jeffbird
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
5.56mm bang


Not even a serious option to change right now for a rifleman/infantryman.

Logistics needs to supply all of them and they have to have compatibility with the NATO and allied forces.

5.56 is the universal option at this point.

For an infantryman, the number and weight of rounds is important.

100 rounds of 5.56 is about 2.7 pounds.

100 rounds of 7.62, the only other viable option, is 5.25 pounds.

So for the same amount of weight on the back, they can carry twice as many rounds of 5.56 as 7.62.

A sniper or designated marksman is a whole different issue than guys out on patrol needing to haul as much ammo as possible.

One other factor for the logistics guys, a bullet that uses half as much brass, lead, copper, and powder allows for production of twice as many rounds in a time of war when commodities and supplies may be stretched thin.

Soldiers win battles, logistics can lose a war.

Like Gen. Neller's thinking, nice rifle. up

Hope Leupold will build to the level of quality they are capable of.





If this isn't the time to switch over to the 6.5 Grendel, when is the time?

I've had customers that are combat veterans. Several have told me of the enemy "fanning" themselves when hit with a 5.56mm at 300+ yards. They don't go down, and stop fighting. Guess where those SOBs fight from? Go back in the annals of "American Rifleman" and look at the article "Taking back the half mile". The 5.56mm is not effective at 400+ yards. They revamped the designated marksman program and pulled M-14's out of storage. Test fired, and scoped the best ones.

Give those Marines, and soldiers 6.5 Grendels and see an improvement of the number of dead and wounded enemy.
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#7034974 - 01/11/18 07:21 PM Re: Jarheads new rifle - H&K [Re: dkershen]
SR025 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 5952
Loc: DFW
Plenty of souls have been snatched with 5.56

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#7035020 - 01/11/18 07:45 PM Re: Jarheads new rifle - H&K [Re: SR025]
FiremanJG Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 25189
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Originally Posted By: SR025
Plenty of souls have been snatched with 5.56


Well of course.

And what I wrote above, is also true.
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#7035045 - 01/11/18 08:04 PM Re: Jarheads new rifle - H&K [Re: dkershen]
scottfromdallas Offline
Tracker

Registered: 06/23/15
Posts: 941
Loc: TX
5.56 would be much more effective with bullets specifically designed to create as much damage as possible, not something that is yaw dependent.

Give them 77 grain bonded tip bullet with a high BC.
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#7035055 - 01/11/18 08:10 PM Re: Jarheads new rifle - H&K [Re: dkershen]
jeffbird Offline


Registered: 03/09/09
Posts: 3100
Not disagreeing with you about ballistics.

But, changing ammo for all of NATO and allied armies is a monumentally huge task. It can happen, but takes a lot of political buy-in and will be led by the Army. They are working on it. Seems like the new Commander-in-Chief is pretty good at kicking bureaucratic butts to get things moving. Would not be surprising to see a change on the horizon sooner rather than later, unless the swamp creatures drag him down.

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#7035090 - 01/11/18 08:32 PM Re: Jarheads new rifle - H&K [Re: jeffbird]
SapperTitan Online   content
Taking Requests

Registered: 11/17/10
Posts: 25411
Loc: Killeen/Ft Hood, TX
Originally Posted By: jeffbird
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
5.56mm bang


Not even a serious option to change right now for a rifleman/infantryman.

Logistics needs to supply all of them and they have to have compatibility with the NATO and allied forces.

5.56 is the universal option at this point.

For an infantryman, the number and weight of rounds is important.

100 rounds of 5.56 is about 2.7 pounds.

100 rounds of 7.62, the only other viable option, is 5.25 pounds.

So for the same amount of weight on the back, they can carry twice as many rounds of 5.56 as 7.62.

A sniper or designated marksman is a whole different issue than guys out on patrol needing to haul as much ammo as possible.

One other factor for the logistics guys, a bullet that uses half as much brass, lead, copper, and powder allows for production of twice as many rounds in a time of war when commodities and supplies may be stretched thin.

Soldiers win battles, logistics can lose a war.

Like Gen. Neller's thinking, nice rifle. up

Hope Leupold will build to the level of quality they are capable of.



I walked almost 2000 kilometers my last deployment on combat patrols and dismounted route clearance. The last thing I cared about with all that BS gear on was how much my ammo weighed. With all the SAPI plates, smoke grenades, GPS, combat groin protector/armor, weapon, IOTV body armor, ACH, mine detector, heavy azz packs on our backs to protect against RCIEDs, the list goes on. I wouldn’t have had an issue carrying a few extra pounds of ammo in something like 6.8 SPC. Hell my SAW gunner carried 600 rounds on every patrol in his pack. I’d sacrifice the light weight of 5.56 for something that would punch a little bigger hole.
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#7035137 - 01/11/18 09:07 PM Re: Jarheads new rifle - H&K [Re: scottfromdallas]
Tactical Cowboy Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 3531
Loc: Snyder
Originally Posted By: scottfromdallas
5.56 would be much more effective with bullets specifically designed to create as much damage as possible, not something that is yaw dependent.

Give them 77 grain bonded tip bullet with a high BC.


Or with fast 55 grain or lighter bullets, like it was designed for.

And using it at 300 yards or less, like it was designed for.

The .223/M16/M4 is not a do-all, fits all platform. However, that’s what it is being forced to do.
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#7035157 - 01/11/18 09:23 PM Re: Jarheads new rifle - H&K [Re: jeffbird]
FiremanJG Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 25189
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Originally Posted By: jeffbird
Not disagreeing with you about ballistics.

But, changing ammo for all of NATO and allied armies is a monumentally huge task. It can happen, but takes a lot of political buy-in and will be led by the Army. They are working on it. Seems like the new Commander-in-Chief is pretty good at kicking bureaucratic butts to get things moving. Would not be surprising to see a change on the horizon sooner rather than later, unless the swamp creatures drag him down.



These things are what frustrate those of us that are expected to see, assess, solve, and move to the next problem as efficiently, and correctly as humanly possible. I hate seeing things take years, that could take months, in the hands of do-ers that'll kick in the door amd sort some [censored] out.
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#7035159 - 01/11/18 09:24 PM Re: Jarheads new rifle - H&K [Re: SapperTitan]
FiremanJG Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 25189
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Originally Posted By: SapperTitan
Originally Posted By: jeffbird
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
5.56mm bang


Not even a serious option to change right now for a rifleman/infantryman.

Logistics needs to supply all of them and they have to have compatibility with the NATO and allied forces.

5.56 is the universal option at this point.

For an infantryman, the number and weight of rounds is important.

100 rounds of 5.56 is about 2.7 pounds.

100 rounds of 7.62, the only other viable option, is 5.25 pounds.

So for the same amount of weight on the back, they can carry twice as many rounds of 5.56 as 7.62.

A sniper or designated marksman is a whole different issue than guys out on patrol needing to haul as much ammo as possible.

One other factor for the logistics guys, a bullet that uses half as much brass, lead, copper, and powder allows for production of twice as many rounds in a time of war when commodities and supplies may be stretched thin.

Soldiers win battles, logistics can lose a war.

Like Gen. Neller's thinking, nice rifle. up

Hope Leupold will build to the level of quality they are capable of.



I walked almost 2000 kilometers my last deployment on combat patrols and dismounted route clearance. The last thing I cared about with all that BS gear on was how much my ammo weighed. With all the SAPI plates, smoke grenades, GPS, combat groin protector/armor, weapon, IOTV body armor, ACH, mine detector, heavy azz packs on our backs to protect against RCIEDs, the list goes on. I wouldn’t have had an issue carrying a few extra pounds of ammo in something like 6.8 SPC. Hell my SAW gunner carried 600 rounds on every patrol in his pack. I’d sacrifice the light weight of 5.56 for something that would punch a little bigger hole.


^^And there you have it.
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Precision Rifle Instruction
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