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#7034292 - 01/11/18 10:41 AM Training the versatile hunting dog??
BradyBuck Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 10/18/07
Posts: 6044
Loc: Abilene, TX
Question for the NAVHDA guys and versatile dog training/hunting guys.

I am a lab guy through and through. I absolutely love the abilities of a well bred lab. I believe I'll always own labs and participate in hunt testing and hopefully field trials one day.

I've only ever trained labs and only ever hunted with labs.

However, I am very intrigued and interested in getting a Pudelpointer in the next few years. The problem is I have no idea how to go about training one.

My goals would be to train this dog to be an all around great hunting partner. Waterfowl, dove, quail, tracking, shed hunting...

I'd like to get involved in NAVHDA and see how far I could take one. I'm not one to halfway do this. I will do my research and I will put in the time and effort to train this dog the right way.

With labs there is a ton of really great training material out there but I'm not familiar with any of the stuff for training for NAVHDA tests.

Thanks for any guidance!
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#7034459 - 01/11/18 12:35 PM Re: Training the versatile hunting dog?? [Re: BradyBuck]
Texasphez Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 08/07/16
Posts: 186
Loc: Panhandle
I made the jump a few years ago from labs to a Pudelpointer. I just like you had many questions about training. Come to find out I was way over thinking things much like you are now. As you well know 95% of dog training is common sense, that fact is the same over all the breeds. If you can train a lab you can train a Pudelpointer. There is a book by Jane Bailey titled exactly what you titled your question. Also NAVHDA has a book that you can order and I don't remember the specific name, but everyone just calls it the green book. I don't live in an area where it is at all feasible for me to participate in regular NAVHDA training days, but this is your best resource. I have never been to an actual training day, but have relied heavily on my breeder to help me along my way. My pp is every bit as intelligent as any lab I've ever had, and his desire to please is through the roof. I am seriously contemplating running mine in a NAVHDA utility test next fall, and I am nowhere near a great dog trainer. Much of the training I've done is what I learned from training my labs and adapted along the way.

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#7034527 - 01/11/18 01:25 PM Re: Training the versatile hunting dog?? [Re: BradyBuck]
Texasphez Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 08/07/16
Posts: 186
Loc: Panhandle
Sorry I told you totally wrong.

First of all the book I was referring to is written by Joan Bailey not Jane.
And it's called How to help Gun Dogs Train Themselves.


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#7034539 - 01/11/18 01:36 PM Re: Training the versatile hunting dog?? [Re: BradyBuck]
Smokey Bear Offline
Tracker

Registered: 05/11/17
Posts: 752
Loc: Texas
Brady, two that are fairly popular are the "Green book" and the "perfect start/perfect finish" DVD's. As with all pointing dogs there are pros and cons to pen raised birds and launchers. After saying that, the best trainers read each dog and adapt accordingly. Just like training a lab, one on one time spent training/talking/hunting with a respected V-dog mentor will be far more valuable than books or DVD's if you are struggling. Giving or getting training advice over the internet is a crapshoot at best. Texasphez's advice is exactly how I approach it as well. The one thing that does strike me is how much support is there from the breeder.
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#7034588 - 01/11/18 02:14 PM Re: Training the versatile hunting dog?? [Re: BradyBuck]
SheCrappieKilla Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 12/21/17
Posts: 79
You know he is right.

I way over thought what to do.

I was scared, thinking that to much retriever style training would hurt the pointing part of training when I started out. Didn't know squat about training a pointing dog and still don't know squat about training a dog to point.

I did figured out, they already know how to find and point birds, it's what they do. Just like a Lab already knows how to retrieve. You just fine tune it.

I feel my pup could have been much further along, if I would have just trained her like a lab from the start.

Obedience training is where it at.

Took me awhile to realize that these dogs, are hunting dogs and naturally use their nose and always want to hunt into the wind. Don't think you can beat a good nose.

Just give them the opportunity.








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#7034609 - 01/11/18 02:22 PM Re: Training the versatile hunting dog?? [Re: BradyBuck]
scalebuster Online   content
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 11/25/10
Posts: 3348
Buy several books and read them. Pick out the one that makes the most sense to you and train your dog that way. Itís not hard to train a bird dog. It will also help to make freinds with someone thatís trained a few of them.

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#7034619 - 01/11/18 02:26 PM Re: Training the versatile hunting dog?? [Re: Texasphez]
scalebuster Online   content
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 11/25/10
Posts: 3348
Originally Posted By: Texasphez
Sorry I told you totally wrong.

First of all the book I was referring to is written by Joan Bailey not Jane.
And it's called How to help Gun Dogs Train Themselves.




I read this book and still have it. I think it was a waste of money and time. I donít think it contains enough knowledge to give it away.

If you have any common sense and have ever trained any kind of dog you should know everything written between these pages.

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#7034648 - 01/11/18 02:46 PM Re: Training the versatile hunting dog?? [Re: BradyBuck]
LReichardt Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 10/26/09
Posts: 122
Loc: North Dallas
My .02 would be understanding how you want your dog to hunt range wise. There is a big difference in style of upland hunting pertaining to range. Being new to quail hunting with VGD from being a duck/dove hunter with a lab it totally freaked me out how much range a VGD needs to hunt. I was not comfortable having a pup running way out in front doing his job. They litteraly cover hundreds of yards with ease. It's nothing to have VGD hunting a hundred yards in front of you. You can easily deter a good dogs range with an e-collar due to being uncomfortable with a rangey dog. It's easier to range them in than it is to teach them to range out. I suggest getting the dog to come as quickly as possible with voice commands to limit your anxiety and to avoid zapping your dog too much. It was much more difficult for me to get my pointer to come than any lab I trained. Also it seems the pointing, stalking, hand signal, whistle, and hunt dead were easier or just as easy to teach or reinforce than my labs The come, retrieve to hand, heel, stubborness, and overall discipline were much tougher to teach than my labs. I have enjoyed having a dog with more personality and whole lot less shedding more than I thought I would. Seems like my labs we done learning by 2 and everything else was seasoning. Going into my second year I still am getting the VGD to where I want. I will say he hunts duck, dove, quail and tracks wounded deer and any furry critter that moves or he smells. So there's a lot to learn. If you can get your dog with experienced pointers he will learn quickly. They are pack hunters at heart.


Edited by LReichardt (01/11/18 02:56 PM)

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#7034676 - 01/11/18 03:06 PM Re: Training the versatile hunting dog?? [Re: BradyBuck]
BradyBuck Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 10/18/07
Posts: 6044
Loc: Abilene, TX
Ill have opportunities to get the new pup hunting with other experienced dogs. At what age do you typically let them run with other dogs?
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#7034698 - 01/11/18 03:19 PM Re: Training the versatile hunting dog?? [Re: BradyBuck]
scalebuster Online   content
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 11/25/10
Posts: 3348
Originally Posted By: BradyBuck
Ill have opportunities to get the new pup hunting with other experienced dogs. At what age do you typically let them run with other dogs?


Everyone has their own opinion. But I like to run my pups by themselves until they start finding and pointing their own birds. It seems to me like they are much less likely to pick up the habit of trailing a better dog if they are already hunting on their own.

I also like to be by myself the first few times out because itís much easier to train on a pup when no one else is hollering at other dogs or providing other distractions.

I also donít think a bird dog ever learned how to find and hold birds by watching another dog.

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#7034740 - 01/11/18 03:49 PM Re: Training the versatile hunting dog?? [Re: scalebuster]
BradyBuck Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 10/18/07
Posts: 6044
Loc: Abilene, TX
Originally Posted By: scalebuster
Originally Posted By: BradyBuck
Ill have opportunities to get the new pup hunting with other experienced dogs. At what age do you typically let them run with other dogs?


Everyone has their own opinion. But I like to run my pups by themselves until they start finding and pointing their own birds. It seems to me like they are much less likely to pick up the habit of trailing a better dog if they are already hunting on their own.

I also like to be by myself the first few times out because itís much easier to train on a pup when no one else is hollering at other dogs or providing other distractions.

I also donít think a bird dog ever learned how to find and hold birds by watching another dog.


This is my inclination as well. Plus picking up bad habits.
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