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#7034070 - 01/11/18 08:30 AM Lever rifle shoots high
7six2 Online   content
Woodsman

Registered: 06/14/16
Posts: 104
When I bought my Mossberg 464 30-30 rifle I sighted in the iron sights with 170gr ammo and it required the rear sight be adjusted almost all the way down. Then recently I decided to try 150gr ammo, and it shoots very high...like around 8 inches,at 50 yards, compared to the 170gr. This is with three different brands of ammo. I understand barrel harmonics causing some POI shift but that seems extreme. However, the real problem is that my rear sight elevation doesn't adjust low enough to overcome this. Can anyone experienced with lever guns shed some light on what may be the cause?

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#7034076 - 01/11/18 08:34 AM Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: 7six2]
DLALLDER Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 11/23/05
Posts: 3298
Loc: Pittsburg, Texas
been a long time since these old eyes used iron sights but I think you need to raise the rear sight to bring the poi down.
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#7034092 - 01/11/18 08:44 AM Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: DLALLDER]
Texas Dan Offline
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Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 13399
Originally Posted By: DLALLDER
been a long time since these old eyes used iron sights but I think you need to raise the rear sight to bring the poi down.


It's just opposite isn't it? Old lever guns had a flip-up rear sight for making long distance shots, which caused the shooter to position or tilt the end of the barrel higher, correct?


Edited by Texas Dan (01/11/18 08:51 AM)
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#7034106 - 01/11/18 08:52 AM Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: Texas Dan]
DLALLDER Offline
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Registered: 11/23/05
Posts: 3298
Loc: Pittsburg, Texas
Originally Posted By: Texas Dan
Originally Posted By: DLALLDER
been a long time since these old eyes used iron sights but I think you need to raise the rear sight to bring the poi down.


It's just opposite isn't it? Old lever guns had a flip-up rear sight for making long distance shots, which caused the shooter to position or tilt the end of the barrel higher, correct?


Texas Dan on second thought you may be correct. The Higher the rear sight the higher the point of impact will be but the lighter bullet 150 will be faster and flatter. Like said been a long time since iron sights were used by me.
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#7034110 - 01/11/18 08:56 AM Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: DLALLDER]
Texas Dan Offline
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Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 13399
Originally Posted By: DLALLDER
Originally Posted By: Texas Dan
Originally Posted By: DLALLDER
been a long time since these old eyes used iron sights but I think you need to raise the rear sight to bring the poi down.


It's just opposite isn't it? Old lever guns had a flip-up rear sight for making long distance shots, which caused the shooter to position or tilt the end of the barrel higher, correct?


Texas Dan on second thought you may be correct. The Higher the rear sight the higher the point of impact will be but the lighter bullet 150 will be faster and flatter. Like said been a long time since iron sights were used by me.


It brings to mind the scene from the movie Dances with Wolves were Costner makes the shot at a running buffalo after flipping up the rear sight on his lever gun. While it might have added more dramatic effect to the scene, not sure if it really would have helped unless the shooter was able to judge distance and know the setting of the sight.

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Spring, Texas

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#7034113 - 01/11/18 08:57 AM Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: 7six2]
TX_LT230FH Online   content
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 05/16/07
Posts: 4464
Loc: North Dallas
OP is right- the rear sight has to go down to shoot lower.
See if you can find a taller front replacement blade- maybe Numrich or Brownells has one.
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#7034118 - 01/11/18 08:59 AM Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: 7six2]
redchevy Offline
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Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 27982
Loc: Texas
Dan got it right, to bring point of impact down you need to lower rear or raise front.

If you have maxed out the vertical adjustment you may see if you can find an alternate ramp with more adjustment or a taller blade(front sight) to replace the original. May be able to adjust how you align the sites as well.

Had a similar issue with a marlin 1895 45-70, accept we couldn't adjust the sight high enough to hit paper at 50 yards with cowboy action type factory loads. I ended up loading some up a little hotter that solved that problem and eventually the factor irons have been replaced with a peep sight.
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#7034171 - 01/11/18 09:23 AM Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: 7six2]
Texasteach Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 01/05/16
Posts: 376
Loc: Ector County
Fixing the problem would require a higher front sight. However, I would be more concerned as to why the point of impact between the loads is so great at 50 yards.
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#7034255 - 01/11/18 10:16 AM Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: 7six2]
VAFish Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 327
Loc: Fairfax, VA
Rear sight goes in the direction you want the shot to move. Front sight goes in the opposite direction you want the shot to move. if you can't drop the rear sight any lower, you need a taller front sight. It looks like the 464 has a dovetailed front sight. They aren't very expensive.

http://www.skinnersights.com/mossberg_464_11.html
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If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."
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#7034298 - 01/11/18 10:45 AM Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: 7six2]
syncerus Online   content
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 2689
Loc: Dallas, TX
I put Skinners on my BLR and can endorse the selection with considerable enthusiasm.
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#7034337 - 01/11/18 11:14 AM Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: 7six2]
hermano W Offline
Tracker

Registered: 06/24/12
Posts: 743
Loc: Austin County
Back in the iron sight days, what we called "taking a fine bead" meant to sight with the front sight down at the very bottom of the rear sight "v". We also "sat" the bullseye on top of the front sight.You can think about it like doing a scope hold over using the mil marks on the crosshairs of the scope. You change the POI without really changing the way the rifle is sighted in. I don't know if that would give you enough correction to solve your problem, but it might...


Edited by hermano W (01/11/18 11:16 AM)

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#7034392 - 01/11/18 11:56 AM Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: 7six2]
Smokey Bear Offline
Tracker

Registered: 05/11/17
Posts: 634
Loc: Texas
Yep, take a fine bead and see what that will do. Top edge of the front post is all you see. If that does not work, a new front post is in order. If I were changing the front post, I would purchase a matching rear sight at the same time. The notch in the rear sight needs to be a dead nuts match for the bead at the top of the front post. Any slop in the fit will degrade accuracy at distance as it relates to windage.
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#7034402 - 01/11/18 12:02 PM Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: 7six2]
hermano W Offline
Tracker

Registered: 06/24/12
Posts: 743
Loc: Austin County
You can also deepen the notch in the rear sight if you have to. I think Brownells has a video on how to do it.

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#7034442 - 01/11/18 12:29 PM Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: hermano W]
7six2 Online   content
Woodsman

Registered: 06/14/16
Posts: 104
Originally Posted By: hermano W
Back in the iron sight days, what we called "taking a fine bead" meant to sight with the front sight down at the very bottom of the rear sight "v". We also "sat" the bullseye on top of the front sight.You can think about it like doing a scope hold over using the mil marks on the crosshairs of the scope. You change the POI without really changing the way the rifle is sighted in. I don't know if that would give you enough correction to solve your problem, but it might...


I'd be willing to adjust my sight picture, but it seems like what you suggested would raise my POI; and by working in the bottom of the "V" wouldn't that partially obscure the view of my target surroundings? Please correct me if I'm backwards, I've been known to mix things up lately.

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#7034463 - 01/11/18 12:36 PM Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: 7six2]
7six2 Online   content
Woodsman

Registered: 06/14/16
Posts: 104
Currently my front sight post is .570" tall. I could swap it to .600" or .650", that seems abnormally high to me. Stil...I'd be happy to change the sights since I dont like whats curently on there, but as was mentioned by Texasteach I wonder if there is something else going on for there to be such a wide difference between 150 and 170gr projectiles?


Edited by 7six2 (01/11/18 12:38 PM)

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