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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: Smokey Bear] #7049578 01/23/18 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted By: Smokey Bear
Like most I concur the partition is as reliable as a hunting bullet gets. That said for deer I mostly shoot cup and core and Sierra's are some of my favorites. They perform different than a bonded bullet. If they are loaded up around 3000 fps you may very likely have the core and jacket seperate at close range. On a broad side shot, not taking on large bone, you can expect substantially larger exits if you get one, as well as more damage from a cup and core. The 243 is a wonderfully effective little cartridge, but it does garner the reputation of erratic terminal performance on big game from time to time. No question the partition along with other premium bullets somewhat mitigates that. Especially when taking on large bone or marginal angles with small fast cartridges. The cup and core is at is best on deer with heavy for caliber bullets in larger calibers, shooting heavier slugs. FWIW I would not have been afraid to take the same shot with prohunters out of a 243.....It does appear to have worked out ok.....experience tells me that same shot to the base of the cranium or the brain pan would have been instant lights out.


Plus, I don’t take neck shots where you have several vastly different mediums the bullet may encounter within a 3-4” area. My .270 likes a 150 grain cup and core bullet.

I get your love for NPs as they are great bullets. My issue is the few rifles I have tried them with always shot something else that would also work well for my intended use more accurately. Similar to what Fireman outlined above.


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: redchevy] #7049600 01/23/18 01:56 PM
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The problem here started with a .243 and not cup and core bullets

A partition is about the best of both worlds as you can get with a hunting bullet. IME it doesn’t produce the shock that a more explosive bullet does but that’s the trade off. Been shooting accubonds the past 4 years and haven’t been that impressed over cup and core, but maybe they do help at higher velocities. Pass thrus are an issue for them

I’m a cup and core fan in standard calibers


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: txtrophy85] #7049621 01/23/18 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
The problem here started with a .243 and not cup and core bullets

A partition is about the best of both worlds as you can get with a hunting bullet. IME it doesn’t produce the shock that a more explosive bullet does but that’s the trade off. Been shooting accubonds the past 4 years and haven’t been that impressed over cup and core, but maybe they do help at higher velocities. Pass thrus are an issue for them

I’m a cup and core fan in standard calibers


My thoughts too. As a general rule, I use tougher bullets (TSX, TTSX/ABs) in the smaller calibers (.257 and below), cup and cores/ABs in medium calibers (.270-300) and usually back to tougher ones in the medium heavy/heavy calibers.

I would not hesitate to use NPs for almost any use if I ever find a rifle that likes them as well or better than other choices. NPs and ABs are good, versatile bullets that fit many applications.

There are many other options in the various categories I’m just listing the ones I have the most familiarity with.

I don’t handload so that limits me.


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: redchevy] #7049624 01/23/18 02:14 PM
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I’ve had similar results with various cup and cores in 270’s and 280’s as well. Heck even a 300 mag but I was shooting a bullet not intended for the velocity I was using it at, 220 round noses don’t like 300 why velocity.

Partitions shoot really well in all my guns and within the ranges I will shoot game are more than accurate enough and provide the consistent performance I’m looking for on game.

Last year my wife shot her buck and hit a cattle panel 10-20 feet in front of the deer, the partition stopped just under the far side skin with some small pieces exiting. I don’t think the same could be said of many bullets and maybe not even that one again, I have the utmost confidence in them and that’s why I use them.

Last edited by redchevy; 01/23/18 02:15 PM.

It's hell eatin em live
Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: txtrophy85] #7049755 01/23/18 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
The problem here started with a .243 and not cup and core bullets

A partition is about the best of both worlds as you can get with a hunting bullet. IME it doesn’t produce the shock that a more explosive bullet does but that’s the trade off. Been shooting accubonds the past 4 years and haven’t been that impressed over cup and core, but maybe they do help at higher velocities. Pass thrus are an issue for them

I’m a cup and core fan in standard calibers


I’ve seen Accubonds penetrate from one end of a deer to the other at some very high speeds. They did a lot of damage, but that’s to be expected. I’ve always been impressed with them.

Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: redchevy] #7049769 01/23/18 03:45 PM
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at 100yrds any 243 bullet on the market better do its job

Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: redchevy] #7049771 01/23/18 03:46 PM
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my little girl shot a doe at 100yrds this weekend with 50gr barnes out of a 22-250... she was quartered away it went in through the last rib and though the vitals and exited through the front point of the opposite shoulder

Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: Navasot] #7049799 01/23/18 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted By: Navasot
at 100yrds any 243 bullet on the market better do its job


I agree. While both these technically did their job, both resulted in a DRT deer, hitting the spine and going around and hitting a shoulder blade and going around weren't satisfactory to me. That 22-250 is what that 50 grain tsx is made for.


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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: Navasot] #7049805 01/23/18 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted By: Navasot
my little girl shot a doe at 100yrds this weekend with 50gr barnes out of a 22-250... she was quartered away it went in through the last rib and though the vitals and exited through the front point of the opposite shoulder


Those mono metals will penetrate for days.

Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: Sneaky] #7050717 01/24/18 03:39 AM
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Originally Posted By: Sneaky
Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
The problem here started with a .243 and not cup and core bullets

A partition is about the best of both worlds as you can get with a hunting bullet. IME it doesn’t produce the shock that a more explosive bullet does but that’s the trade off. Been shooting accubonds the past 4 years and haven’t been that impressed over cup and core, but maybe they do help at higher velocities. Pass thrus are an issue for them

I’m a cup and core fan in standard calibers


I’ve seen Accubonds penetrate from one end of a deer to the other at some very high speeds. They did a lot of damage, but that’s to be expected. I’ve always been impressed with them.



Killed an handul of animals with my .257 wby shooting 110 grain accubonds.

Only pass thru I got was on a low neck shot. I find the bullet oftentimes mushroomed under the hide, including a big bull elk I shot, which is impressive. But never a full passthru

For what it’s worth these arnt broadside lung shot animals though, save for the elk. They are shoulder or quartering shots mostly


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: Sneaky] #7050725 01/24/18 03:51 AM
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Originally Posted By: Sneaky

I’ve seen Accubonds penetrate from one end of a deer to the other at some very high speeds. They did a lot of damage, but that’s to be expected. I’ve always been impressed with them.


I agree Sneaky. I have been equally impressed. This bullet came from a big mule deer buck my buddy shot at a whopping distance of 30 yds.....jumped him out of a sandhill and pasted him with his 140 AB our of his 7STW. Had to be going 3300'ish at impact, which was through rear ham, penetrated the length of his body and was found under the off side skin at base of neck. Still weighed 86 grains.




Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: redchevy] #7050738 01/24/18 04:18 AM
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Whole lot in this thread worried about relying heavily on bullet construction, instead of putting a bullet where one wants it.


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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: txtrophy85] #7050801 01/24/18 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
Originally Posted By: Sneaky
Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
The problem here started with a .243 and not cup and core bullets

A partition is about the best of both worlds as you can get with a hunting bullet. IME it doesn’t produce the shock that a more explosive bullet does but that’s the trade off. Been shooting accubonds the past 4 years and haven’t been that impressed over cup and core, but maybe they do help at higher velocities. Pass thrus are an issue for them

I’m a cup and core fan in standard calibers


I’ve seen Accubonds penetrate from one end of a deer to the other at some very high speeds. They did a lot of damage, but that’s to be expected. I’ve always been impressed with them.



Killed an handul of animals with my .257 wby shooting 110 grain accubonds.

Only pass thru I got was on a low neck shot. I find the bullet oftentimes mushroomed under the hide, including a big bull elk I shot, which is impressive. But never a full passthru

For what it’s worth these arnt broadside lung shot animals though, save for the elk. They are shoulder or quartering shots mostly


That’s just what I’d expect at Weatherby velocities. I love finding the bullet under the hide.

Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: redchevy] #7050802 01/24/18 08:49 AM
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JGraider, that is one fine looking mushroom.

Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: redchevy] #7050931 01/24/18 01:49 PM
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I will say this about the accubonds, when you pull them out of the animal they look exactly like you would expect them too as advertised


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: J.G.] #7051429 01/24/18 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Whole lot in this thread worried about relying heavily on bullet construction, instead of putting a bullet where one wants it.


That's because not everyone hunts of out of stands, blinds, trees, etc over feed or green fields. If a guy has hunted enough he knows there are no absolutes, stuff happens, etc. I'd guess probably half of the 45 muley bucks I've killed were moving in one way or another.

Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: redchevy] #7051435 01/24/18 07:24 PM
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Here are some more AB's from 5 of the 12 animals I killed in Namibia a couple of years ago. These were the only ones caught, the rest were pass through's from a 7mm Rem mag/ 160 AB combo running 3015 at muzzle. Impacts were from 90-150 yards, and purposely drilled through shoulders. As you guys know, African game's vitals are further forward that our big game.


Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: Jgraider] #7051480 01/24/18 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Whole lot in this thread worried about relying heavily on bullet construction, instead of putting a bullet where one wants it.
Originally Posted By: Jgraider
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Whole lot in this thread worried about relying heavily on bullet construction, instead of putting a bullet where one wants it.


That's because not everyone hunts of out of stands, blinds, trees, etc over feed or green fields. If a guy has hunted enough he knows there are no absolutes, stuff happens, etc. I'd guess probably half of the 45 muley bucks I've killed were moving in one way or another.


What does a blind have to do with anything

Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: Navasot] #7051483 01/24/18 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted By: Navasot
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Whole lot in this thread worried about relying heavily on bullet construction, instead of putting a bullet where one wants it.
Originally Posted By: Jgraider
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Whole lot in this thread worried about relying heavily on bullet construction, instead of putting a bullet where one wants it.


That's because not everyone hunts of out of stands, blinds, trees, etc over feed or green fields. If a guy has hunted enough he knows there are no absolutes, stuff happens, etc. I'd guess probably half of the 45 muley bucks I've killed were moving in one way or another.


What does a blind have to do with anything


Dead steady rest, bench rest type shooting, etc

Last edited by Jgraider; 01/24/18 08:06 PM.
Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: Jgraider] #7051485 01/24/18 08:07 PM
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I shoot better off a backpack or shooting sticks than I do off a blind window... shooting out of a blind has got to be the most terrible shooting position other than free hand unless you have a shelf to hold your trigger arm elbow up.

Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: Jgraider] #7051488 01/24/18 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jgraider
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Whole lot in this thread worried about relying heavily on bullet construction, instead of putting a bullet where one wants it.


That's because not everyone hunts of out of stands, blinds, trees, etc over feed or green fields. If a guy has hunted enough he knows there are no absolutes, stuff happens, etc. I'd guess probably half of the 45 muley bucks I've killed were moving in one way or another.


I can assure you I can make a steady shot with nothing but a backpack in hand. Might not even need that. Lots of assumptions you made there. Talk to anyone that's been out with me for a day, and ask the strange things I have at the range to shoot off of. That carries right over into hunting.

I hit a hog at 343 yards a few evenings agao, standing, with the rifle rested on a hackberry limb.

Try again.


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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: redchevy] #7051490 01/24/18 08:09 PM
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I much prefer shooting prone off a bipod down a sendero than off a blind window. If it works out right I can stick my elbow onto something to stabilize it the blind isn't bad, but still not as good as the bipod.


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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: J.G.] #7051518 01/24/18 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: Jgraider
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Whole lot in this thread worried about relying heavily on bullet construction, instead of putting a bullet where one wants it.


That's because not everyone hunts of out of stands, blinds, trees, etc over feed or green fields. If a guy has hunted enough he knows there are no absolutes, stuff happens, etc. I'd guess probably half of the 45 muley bucks I've killed were moving in one way or another.


I can assure you I can make a steady shot with nothing but a backpack in hand. Might not even need that. Lots of assumptions you made there. Talk to anyone that's been out with me for a day, and ask the strange things I have at the range to shoot off of. That carries right over into hunting.

I hit a hog at 343 yards a few evenings agao, standing, with the rifle rested on a hackberry limb.

Try again.


This is a thread about bullet performance characteristics.

Why do you maneuver every thread to end up (and usually then end period) with you telling everyone how great a shot you are? Geez. We get it.



Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: J.G.] #7051520 01/24/18 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: Jgraider
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Whole lot in this thread worried about relying heavily on bullet construction, instead of putting a bullet where one wants it.


That's because not everyone hunts of out of stands, blinds, trees, etc over feed or green fields. If a guy has hunted enough he knows there are no absolutes, stuff happens, etc. I'd guess probably half of the 45 muley bucks I've killed were moving in one way or another.


I can assure you I can make a steady shot with nothing but a backpack in hand. Might not even need that. Lots of assumptions you made there. Talk to anyone that's been out with me for a day, and ask the strange things I have at the range to shoot off of. That carries right over into hunting.

I hit a hog at 343 yards a few evenings agao, standing, with the rifle rested on a hackberry limb.

Try again.



Then that doesn't apply to you then does it? I've had over 150 hunters in camp over the past 15 years, and have been hunting myself for over 45 years. I can assure you with absolute certainty that the very vast majority of hunters are much better off the bench that in hunting situations.

As I told you before, I have the luxury of getting to watch Hodnett's "pupils" shoot ever once in a while. It's not a mystery why these guys shoot from prone positions and not off of hackberry limbs, shooting sticks, limbs, free handing it, or anything else you can dream up.

Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #7051521 01/24/18 08:30 PM
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That was a response to his assumptions, which are incorrect. And that is as plain as day, for anyone to see.

But you too want to cause trouble. Nothing new under the sun.


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