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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: hetman] #7029392 01/08/18 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted By: hetman
should have used a 50BMG and "SUCKED her EYEBALLS out"

Dang didn't you learn anything from the hunting shows whip


Actually... I didn't even hit that deer, the bullet wizzed really close to her neck and the shock wave did all the damage grin


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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: redchevy] #7029433 01/08/18 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted By: redchevy
Originally Posted By: hetman
should have used a 50BMG and "SUCKED her EYEBALLS out"

Dang didn't you learn anything from the hunting shows whip


Actually... I didn't even hit that deer, the bullet wizzed really close to her neck and the shock wave did all the damage grin


Bullet wizz shock wave.
Is that the new proper term for this eyeball/organ/neck meat sucking phenomenon?


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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: redchevy] #7029435 01/08/18 03:16 PM
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I've seen a Accubond do similar. Hit perfect behind the shoulder but barely clipped a lung on it's turn straight down.


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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: redchevy] #7029504 01/08/18 03:58 PM
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So you're going to trade a cup and core for a bullet with two cups and two cores? laugh

If you shoot enough deer, anything can happen eventually. You can't extrapolate what that bullet would have done in a different location because you didn't shoot it in that location. That's like saying your truck would have gotten better mileage driving on 281 instead of HWY 16. Well, since you didn't drive 281 on that day, with that brand of gas, and that weather, you just don't know. You may have just hit her in the exact right spot, with the muscles and bone at the perfect angles, to deflect any bullet up and out like that.

We killed nearly 200 whitetails at our place with Remington Corelokts and never had a problem with the performance of the bullet itself. But I guess I shouldn't have trusted them.

Stuff happens.


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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #7029540 01/08/18 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: QuitShootinYoungBucks
So you're going to trade a cup and core for a bullet with two cups and two cores? laugh

If you shoot enough deer, anything can happen eventually. You can't extrapolate what that bullet would have done in a different location because you didn't shoot it in that location. That's like saying your truck would have gotten better mileage driving on 281 instead of HWY 16. Well, since you didn't drive 281 on that day, with that brand of gas, and that weather, you just don't know. You may have just hit her in the exact right spot, with the muscles and bone at the perfect angles, to deflect any bullet up and out like that.

We killed nearly 200 whitetails at our place with Remington Corelokts and never had a problem with the performance of the bullet itself. But I guess I shouldn't have trusted them.

Stuff happens.


Yes i will readily trade for 2 cores. The partition changes the ball game big time. Ive shot quite a few critters in my day enough to know that sometimes i get a 6 inch exit with a cup and core soft point out of my 270 and sometimes no exit with the same bullet and shot placement. The consistency is all over the board. The partition for me has done the exact same thing every time from 223 to 300 wby. On every one that i have recovered (only one out of an animal, i have intentionally lined up many deer/hogs with trees so i can recover a bullet) the front core expands and sheds reducing the retained weight to just over 60% and the rear core remains intact and penetrates. I have never recovered one with an intact first core. That is why i love them, they readily expand and they always penetrate.

I agree stuff does happen. Some say i like x bullet because i always shoot through the ribs, well if you hit the shoulder stuff happens not with a partition it will perform great on either. For what people spend on hunting stuff and how its almost cool now a days to spend more on stuff just because i cant figure why so many people shoot the cheapest bullets they can get. I have seen first hand what the results are of using them. I'm a tinkerer and reloader so I am always messing with the next thing or some other bullet. My brother and dad have refused to shoot anything other than partitions because of their observations with the other bullets. They are not fancy, they are not flashy, they are not the new hot thing on the market, but i do think since their inception they have yet to be rivaled as the ultimate all around hunting bullet.


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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: redchevy] #7029658 01/08/18 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: redchevy
Originally Posted By: QuitShootinYoungBucks
So you're going to trade a cup and core for a bullet with two cups and two cores? laugh

If you shoot enough deer, anything can happen eventually. You can't extrapolate what that bullet would have done in a different location because you didn't shoot it in that location. That's like saying your truck would have gotten better mileage driving on 281 instead of HWY 16. Well, since you didn't drive 281 on that day, with that brand of gas, and that weather, you just don't know. You may have just hit her in the exact right spot, with the muscles and bone at the perfect angles, to deflect any bullet up and out like that.

We killed nearly 200 whitetails at our place with Remington Corelokts and never had a problem with the performance of the bullet itself. But I guess I shouldn't have trusted them.

Stuff happens.


Yes i will readily trade for 2 cores. The partition changes the ball game big time. Ive shot quite a few critters in my day enough to know that sometimes i get a 6 inch exit with a cup and core soft point out of my 270 and sometimes no exit with the same bullet and shot placement. The consistency is all over the board. The partition for me has done the exact same thing every time from 223 to 300 wby. On every one that i have recovered (only one out of an animal, i have intentionally lined up many deer/hogs with trees so i can recover a bullet) the front core expands and sheds reducing the retained weight to just over 60% and the rear core remains intact and penetrates. I have never recovered one with an intact first core. That is why i love them, they readily expand and they always penetrate.

I agree stuff does happen. Some say i like x bullet because i always shoot through the ribs, well if you hit the shoulder stuff happens not with a partition it will perform great on either. For what people spend on hunting stuff and how its almost cool now a days to spend more on stuff just because i cant figure why so many people shoot the cheapest bullets they can get. I have seen first hand what the results are of using them. I'm a tinkerer and reloader so I am always messing with the next thing or some other bullet. My brother and dad have refused to shoot anything other than partitions because of their observations with the other bullets. They are not fancy, they are not flashy, they are not the new hot thing on the market, but i do think since their inception they have yet to be rivaled as the ultimate all around hunting bullet.


up I was just giving you a bit of grief, RC. I can understand why you like the Partitions-why didn't you have one in that load already? And due to accuracy issued, I've moved on from the Corelokts. The bullets were always great; shoulder-ribs-neck, it didn't seem to matter. The 6-8 I recovered over the years were always just like the picture in the magazines-a perfect mushroom.

The best news is that you got the deer!


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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: redchevy] #7029685 01/08/18 05:48 PM
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Originally bought the 243 as a mostly range gun to get my wife to shoot more. She insists she doesn't like the 243 and likes shooting my 270 better. I bought the prohunters because they were cheap and I had always been well pleased with sierra's accuracy and figured if I ended up taking it hunting it would suffice, which it has.

I cant count the number of 1/2 shot boxes of bullets on my loading bench and a year or so ago I decided I would shoot them till they were gone. I think I have a dozen or so of the sierras left then they will be gone. After them I have a 100 round box of hornady btsp's with 25 missing that is on the shoot list and finally I will start with the partitions. My best load with the Sierras is 40 grains of IMR 4350, I decided after I pillar bedded it to take 5 of each of the sierras hornady's and partitions loaded over the same 40 grain charge seated to the same depth and see how they shot. The sierras were best followed closely by the hornadys and the partitions brought up the rear, but they were all sub moa at 100 yards, I was really surprised, rifle seems to like that charge with a 100 grain bullet. I will tweak a little to see if I can improve the partition load in the future.


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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: redchevy] #7029969 01/08/18 08:52 PM
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Partitions are the closest thing to a perfect hunting bullet that exists IMO. They work as they are designed to every time. There's a reason every bullet maker has been trying to emulate partition performance for 65 years now.

Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: redchevy] #7030149 01/08/18 10:52 PM
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Barnes TTSX's are now the bullet of choice for every one of my rifles except for one. Partitions are another excellent all around choice, but not every rifle shoots them well. The TTSX's are very accurate in every one of my rifles. Note - my comment only applies to the Tipped TSX, not the previous version the TSX.

Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: redchevy] #7030186 01/08/18 11:16 PM
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I never thought much of the accuracy of Partitions. I tried them in my 223’s first barrel and used a long list of powders, but groups weren’t great. Yesterday as I caught up on loading all the ammo the grandkids shot up, I decided to try some Partitions in the new barrel. I had H335 in the thrower, so I went with that. At near max I found a great load that amazingly prints right where the 40 gr BTs print. I’m happy.


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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: jeffbird] #7030251 01/08/18 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: jeffbird
Barnes TTSX's are now the bullet of choice for every one of my rifles except for one. Partitions are another excellent all around choice, but not every rifle shoots them well. The TTSX's are very accurate in every one of my rifles. Note - my comment only applies to the Tipped TSX, not the previous version the TSX.



I read that the solid copper bullets causes lot of fouling over time, do you have any fouling issues?

Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: redchevy] #7030291 01/09/18 12:21 AM
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Which Pro Hunter bullet?
RN, SPT, SMP, FN or HP/FN



And this;
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Shot placement was too far from the brain stem. peep

Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: TackDriver] #7030341 01/09/18 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted By: TackDriver
Originally Posted By: jeffbird
Barnes TTSX's are now the bullet of choice for every one of my rifles except for one. Partitions are another excellent all around choice, but not every rifle shoots them well. The TTSX's are very accurate in every one of my rifles. Note - my comment only applies to the Tipped TSX, not the previous version the TSX.



I read that the solid copper bullets causes lot of fouling over time, do you have any fouling issues?


Really depends on the barrel. The current Barnes TTSX's foul less than the previous versions. In my MRC's, the TTSX's foul no more so than anything else. In my Accuracy International barrel, they cause lots of fouling, which is the one rifle I do not use them for hunting. That barrel has over 4,000 rounds through it, so maybe that is a factor? The Barnes Copper Solvent makes quick work of removing the copper or else use Wipe Out overnight. They are not a bullet that is going to be used in a high round count scenario, so it really is not an issue.




Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: redchevy] #7030549 01/09/18 02:45 AM
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Like most I concur the partition is as reliable as a hunting bullet gets. That said for deer I mostly shoot cup and core and Sierra's are some of my favorites. They perform different than a bonded bullet. If they are loaded up around 3000 fps you may very likely have the core and jacket seperate at close range. On a broad side shot, not taking on large bone, you can expect substantially larger exits if you get one, as well as more damage from a cup and core. The 243 is a wonderfully effective little cartridge, but it does garner the reputation of erratic terminal performance on big game from time to time. No question the partition along with other premium bullets somewhat mitigates that. Especially when taking on large bone or marginal angles with small fast cartridges. The cup and core is at is best on deer with heavy for caliber bullets in larger calibers, shooting heavier slugs. FWIW I would not have been afraid to take the same shot with prohunters out of a 243.....It does appear to have worked out ok.....experience tells me that same shot to the base of the cranium or the brain pan would have been instant lights out.


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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: Smokey Bear] #7030664 01/09/18 03:31 AM
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Reliable, depending on where shot placement is intended. They are notorious for not shooting very tight. And I don't mean groups, I mean same CBS, same POI every time. When the target area on an animal is very, very small, maybe they aren't the bullet to choose.


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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: Smokey Bear] #7030835 01/09/18 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted By: Smokey Bear
Like most I concur the partition is as reliable as a hunting bullet gets. That said for deer I mostly shoot cup and core and Sierra's are some of my favorites. They perform different than a bonded bullet. If they are loaded up around 3000 fps you may very likely have the core and jacket seperate at close range. On a broad side shot, not taking on large bone, you can expect substantially larger exits if you get one, as well as more damage from a cup and core. The 243 is a wonderfully effective little cartridge, but it does garner the reputation of erratic terminal performance on big game from time to time. No question the partition along with other premium bullets somewhat mitigates that. Especially when taking on large bone or marginal angles with small fast cartridges. The cup and core is at is best on deer with heavy for caliber bullets in larger calibers, shooting heavier slugs. FWIW I would not have been afraid to take the same shot with prohunters out of a 243.....It does appear to have worked out ok.....experience tells me that same shot to the base of the cranium or the brain pan would have been instant lights out.


Whew... you saved me a lot of typing!!


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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: J.G.] #7030945 01/09/18 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Reliable, depending on where shot placement is intended. They are notorious for not shooting very tight. And I don't mean groups, I mean same CBS, same POI every time. When the target area on an animal is very, very small, maybe they aren't the bullet to choose.


No disagreement from me. I went through it last summer, trying to work up a load for a 7 RM. Eventually punted it cause i could not get it to shoot well enough to suit me. BUT if you get partitions shooting to your satisfaction, they have few equals for on game performance. The argument could be made that the light fast cartridges like 243/6mm get the biggest boost on deer size game from bonded core bullets.


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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: J.G.] #7031071 01/09/18 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Reliable, depending on where shot placement is intended. They are notorious for not shooting very tight. And I don't mean groups, I mean same CBS, same POI every time. When the target area on an animal is very, very small, maybe they aren't the bullet to choose.


Could you explain that?


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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: redchevy] #7031128 01/09/18 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted By: redchevy
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Reliable, depending on where shot placement is intended. They are notorious for not shooting very tight. And I don't mean groups, I mean same CBS, same POI every time. When the target area on an animal is very, very small, maybe they aren't the bullet to choose.


Could you explain that?


When they hit what someone meant for them to hit, there's no denying they work great. But if the load just doesn't shoot tight enough for a guy to be able to put them where he wants them, then they aren't doing much good.

Months ago, remember, I went through more work than usual to get my AR-15 to shoot 60 gr Partitions well. And I finally got a decent load. Really the best of the worst. Four days ago, same exact powder lot, same exact rifle and scope but 55 gr Sierra Game King spire point boattail. The Game Kings shot well inside the Partitions. Like, grouped half as large. Though I have am unusal 1:9, it should have zero trouble stabilizing a 60 gr bullet. In fact, I should be able to go with an even longer bullet than 60 gr. The nature of the Partition, is they don't shoot tight for many rifles. It comes down to different strokes for different folks.

In the case of my AR-15, I loaded about 100 of the Partitions. Once those are shot, I will not buy more, as I have 700 SGKs on the shelf, that go where I tell them to go.

Now, if a person has a Partition load that'll stay inside 8" out to 200 yards, they will probably do exactly what he needs them to do, every time they are lined up on lungs of big animals.


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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: J.G.] #7031152 01/09/18 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: redchevy
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Reliable, depending on where shot placement is intended. They are notorious for not shooting very tight. And I don't mean groups, I mean same CBS, same POI every time. When the target area on an animal is very, very small, maybe they aren't the bullet to choose.


Could you explain that?


When they hit what someone meant for them to hit, there's no denying they work great. But if the load just doesn't shoot tight enough for a guy to be able to put them where he wants them, then they aren't doing much good.

Months ago, remember, I went through more work than usual to get my AR-15 to shoot 60 gr Partitions well. And I finally got a decent load. Really the best of the worst. Four days ago, same exact powder lot, same exact rifle and scope but 55 gr Sierra Game King spire point boattail. The Game Kings shot well inside the Partitions. Like, grouped half as large. Though I have am unusal 1:9, it should have zero trouble stabilizing a 60 gr bullet. In fact, I should be able to go with an even longer bullet than 60 gr. The nature of the Partition, is they don't shoot tight for many rifles. It comes down to different strokes for different folks.

In the case of my AR-15, I loaded about 100 of the Partitions. Once those are shot, I will not buy more, as I have 700 SGKs on the shelf, that go where I tell them to go.

Now, if a person has a Partition load that'll stay inside 8" out to 200 yards, they will probably do exactly what he needs them to do, every time they are lined up on lungs of big animals.


Didn't you also do most of your load work up either jamming them or with very little jump? They like a jump and quite a bit of it in my experience. I guess I have never experienced the side of them that has been hard to get them to shoot.

2 270 Winchesters, a 280 rem, a 223, 2- 243's, and a 300 wby will all shoot them an inch or less with little to no load work up. They are also all factory original except the 2 243's one has been pillar bedded and the other pillar/glass bedded. They will all super easily do better than 8" at 200.


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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: redchevy] #7031154 01/09/18 03:15 PM
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When I reloaded for the 223, I had been shooting federal premium 60 grain partitions before. I took one of the factory loads set my seating die off of it. Looked at my load data for the powder I had and loaded the powder charge that most closely mimicked the speed of the factory load about 3050 fps and that is it. It shoots really well, easily under an inch if I can do my part and that's with a cheap arse ADL and factory trigger.

I was also probably 12-15 at the time, not exactly sure.

Last edited by redchevy; 01/09/18 03:15 PM.

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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: redchevy] #7031162 01/09/18 03:21 PM
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The Partitions jumped, and the SGKs jumped. The Partitions just didn't shoot well in that particular rifle.


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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: redchevy] #7048247 01/22/18 02:31 PM
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Shot another doe this weekend. 150 yards same gun same bullets. Placed behind the shoulder quartering away. I shot from an elevated stand. Bullet entered mid body behind shoulder, hit inside of shoulder on the off side and traveled up the shoulder blade through the far side back strap and exited between the tops of the shoulder blade on the top of the back. Up till this had really been pretty pleased with the prohunters, but am very glad they will be all used up long before next deer season.


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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: redchevy] #7048255 01/22/18 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted By: redchevy
Shot another doe this weekend. 150 yards same gun same bullets. Placed behind the shoulder quartering away. I shot from an elevated stand. Bullet entered mid body behind shoulder, hit inside of shoulder on the off side and traveled up the shoulder blade through the far side back strap and exited between the tops of the shoulder blade on the top of the back. Up till this had really been pretty pleased with the prohunters, but am very glad they will be all used up long before next deer season.


Excellent, I never tried the Pro Hunters, but Sierra has some nice bullets especially the Gamekings.

The Pro Hunters are flat based, how much difference from the Game Kings with a boat tail at long distances before you see a drop? I am sure not much under 300 yards.

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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets [Re: redchevy] #7048295 01/22/18 02:55 PM
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Game kings should be better at long range. I bought prohunters because ill probably never shoot over 300 yards and prohunters are supposed to be a little heavier constructed than the gamekings.

I did put them on paper at 200 yards this weekend. I managed a 2 inch group... after falling in a tractor rut and spraining my ankle pretty badly and a 25 mph crosswind.


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