Putting my PST Viper 4-16x50 in the mail shortly. I was hunting in a covered blind during a light drizzle. I had fog and droplets form inside the scope.

I have a pair of vortex diamond back bino's and a Diamondback HD 4x16x42


imo, the bino's are a great buy for the dollar. to get the same clarity I would have to have spent $400 more. they are not Swarovski quality but they are $1200 cheaper too.


the Scope was put on my weatherby on the recommendation of the guy that bought it. i like the scope, don't love it. Some how, some way, it got knocked off zero...was 8" high at 100. didn't drop it, knock it hard, etc. resighted and so far, it still is on zero.


their warranty means nothing to me. if i find a failure, its likely in the field and i'm out time and money.


i may buy another vortex scope, but i may stick with leupold.

I like Leupold, but I've sent in two of the five I've owned, neither time was my fault.

The only piece of equipment I own thst I have 100% faith in is my Ruger M77 mkII and it’s 3x9x40 redfield tracker scope

In 20 years it’s never let me down

It’s not even my favorite rifle anymore (my Weatherby has thst title now, about to be joined by a brother) but I do have complete confidence in thst rifle.


And it’s not a pricey rig by any standards



By and large now I think they are turning out less quality optics and falling back on the warranty across the board

Apologies for the detour. So decided on a Weatherby for the new rifle? Might be of interest to update the "My last rifle" thread with details. I know I'd like to hear what you settled on and cost if you don't mind sharing.

I had a PST get dust inside it in Terrel county, TX on a Mule deer hunt.

Last summer, my Razor spotter got dust in it, in Camargo, OK, at a rifle match.

Sent both in, both came back clean. But it looks like they need to work on sealing their optics better.

Got a pair of 30mm Viper HS's that seem to be holding up so far, but then I am not hard on stuff anymore. Got a 2-10x44 & a 4x16x44 and really like the 2-10 but gonna move scopes around again like a square dance, as the Wby VG the 4x16 is on is "taking a ride" asap. The Viper 2-10 is going on the M70 XTR 7x57 & the 4x16 Viper is going on the BACO 270 but ??? who knows where it will wind up right now.

The Minox 30mm 2-10x50 ZV5 HD on my T3 Swede is better in low lite and clearer than either of the Vipers but then the cost difference is appreciable...and the ZV5's 50mm x's the Vipers 44mm objective is a big difference too. Had a long talk with a Minox plant guy to ask where the scope was made and where the components came from found out that the ZV5's were assembeled in Silicon Valley by computer techie types, and rhe glass was euro Schott glass.

Had a couple Vortex Crossfire II's and a D'Back HD, and still have a Minox ZV3 1" tube 4.5x14x44 SF lookin for a better Burris FF II...and IMO all those scopes are about a tossup. The ZV3's use a Chinese made copy of schott glass that is pretty decent, but the 4.5x14's tube is too short to use on a LA rifle & will prolly wind up on a SA something someday....very clear and knobs are dead solid accurate, plus strong enough to survive my screwed up less than a gentle mounting efforts when I get frustrated with Warne Rings & Base's

Never had a serious failure blip on a scope in all the Burris's and Leo's I've owned over the years, even the cheapy Bushnell Banners have given acceptable service for the $$'s invested - still have a Korean made Banner 3x9x40 that is solid scope and very clear for a 30+ year old low end scope, but have sent Leo's & Burris's back to check up on scopes I took in trade and gotten them back grattis with a nice letter confirming a clean bill of health. Really like the older Burris FF II's best in that price point, day in day out. FWIW.
Ron

I have two Gen 1 PSTs. Both 2.5-10x. One is front focal plane and the the other is 2nd focal plane.

I bought them both on clearance (25% off) from Camera Land because Gen 2s were coming out. They seem good for the $450 & $550 I paid for them. Time will tell if the hold up.

I have had Leupolds on 95% of my rifles since the ‘70s. Never had one fail me. I am not hard on them, but they have been through lots of traveling and some pretty rugged hunts over the years.

After watching this conversation happen for the last few years in a number of places, I've distilled it down to basically this:

A) Scopes are complex and intricate
B) The main complaints I hear are about PST Gen 1s
C) I've never heard of a Razor 1 or 2 with an issue that wasn't overtly user-generated
D) buy a cheap scope; get a cheap scope. Brands don't matter.

I sold all my vortex scopes after I bought my first Minox. I've gotten two ZP5s close enough to the price of a Razor Gen 2 that it makes the Razor superfluous, but the Gen 2 is no slouch. It may weigh as much as my truck, but it's extremely capable, has excellent optics, and has the best designed turrets in the industry.

The nicest most helpful person I’ve ever dealt with in the shooting industry is a lady by the name of Doreen Fobes at Vortex. She handles dealer program sales so the chances of dealing with her are nil unless you can buy Vortex products via a dealer program or 3point5. I like Vortex mini red dots, I have a Razor. I believe the Razor scopes are excellent. Based on my experience owning two Vipers and a Crossfire there are other scopes I much prefer over Crossfire, Diamondback or Viper - for the same money. I still have the Crossfire. It was mounted on a Marlin Model 60 I haven’t shot in five years so I loaned it to a friend. Sent the Vipers down the road. I’ve dealt with Leupold and Vortex customer service quite a bit and have noticed one difference. Vortex employees are super nice, courteous and helpful. Just like Leupold. But the Leupold people are more knowledgeable.

Not sure if that guy just got a bad one or if he didn't know how to use a scope. He said glass was worse on his PST2 than the Gen 1, which is just not true unless his is a one-off lemon.

There was a thread on snipers hide the other day about a guy who thought he had bad glass quality, but it ended up he was trying to adjust the eyepiece and the magnification ring to focus the target image. When I see threads like the one you linked, I think you have to take it with a grain of salt being that it's online and we have no idea what the user's knowledge base is.

I've only had 1 vortex scope ever go down and it was a gen 1 razor. Something came loose on the inner turret. Vortex was great to deal with and had it back to me in less than a week. It did take a while before I was really trustworthy of it again though. Ironically the only 2 optics I've ever had to send back are manufactured by the ones that speak the loudest about how good their warranty is.

That's what I do when I read or hear something I don't agree with.

I agree about taking what you read with a grain of salt. I posted the link because I seem to see more of those type of threads about Vortex than others.

I wouldn't be surprised if they are one of the top 1-3 companies in terms of total scopes sold... so i would expect to see more complaints

Not as many people buy night force or other brands simply because of price

My bet is there have been more Razors sent in than NF ATACRs, Beasts, or NXS. Pretty close to the same ballfield in price on all those.

maybe you do but i do not have any data either way some i am not going to make any declarations...

If you google ATACR issues or problems there are issues which is to be expected. But comparing the razor line to the ATACR line i wouldn't be able to see what one is more likely to have issues than the other

Really?

Lets look at reputations, here.

One has a reputation for tough, and reliable.

One has a reputation for no questions warranty, and great customer service. Which many people can brag about.

I've been happy with my PST and have zero issues.

I've owned a handful and still have 2. All from the PST line. Great glass for the money.

I think the reason Vortex, and more specifically the PST line has so many people talking about the issues they are having is simply because of the price. Many more people can buy the PST vs an ATACR, or S&B, or USO, etcetera. It’s a very popular scope, and brand, and has sold a tremendous number and many of those sold were prob improperly torqued/mounted/used.

There's a fella over on 24HCF that goes by Formidilosis. He does scope testing and other stuff I'm sure for the US Dept of Defense, and sees over 500,000 rounds per year go down range, with numerous brands of scopes tested. He has nothing good to say about Vortex that I'm aware of.

Many of the problems the scope has had, had nothing to do with improper torque/ mounting/ use. Yes those three things have contributed, but there are many other failures that were of no fault of the user.