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Feb 12th, 2024
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 Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7020921
01/02/18 03:51 AM
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postoak
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The OP was apologetic for not using the word bison, but he needn't be. People seem to think bison was a native American term but it isn't. Both buffalo and bison come from the ancient Greek and Roman words for "wild ox".
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Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison
[Re: Sneaky]
#7020930
01/02/18 03:55 AM
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dogcatcher
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Like him or not, NG is not dense.
Him and Stub are both good dudes.
I don’t expect the two of you to ever get along, but I do believe you are both decent, sharp fellas with the best interests of hunting in mind.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back.
_____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________![[Linked Image]](https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/pics/usergals/2018/09/full-3152-162968-charge_air_assault.jpg)
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Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison
[Re: postoak]
#7020957
01/02/18 04:16 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,934
txtrophy85
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The OP was apologetic for not using the word bison, but he needn't be. People seem to think bison was a native American term but it isn't. Both buffalo and bison come from the ancient Greek and Roman words for "wild ox". I'll confess, I'm not sorry. I'll say things like Buffalo and could care less and ain't and my 4th grade English teacher can kiss off I didn't mean that , Mrs. Felt was a real nice lady
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#7020959
01/02/18 04:18 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,934
txtrophy85
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I havent researched this much because I too was taught white man killed them all.
While I believe white man is responsible, I dont not believe it was intentional or that they were wiped out with firearms.
Last January I hunted with a friend in Wyoming. His dad is a retired Sargeant Major and big history buff. Ge has researched this for years.
Some of his points was the mat doesnt add up. He says the estimated buffalo killed doesnt come close to population estimates.
He also points out that the buffalo disappearnce across country coincided with cattle drives through those areas.
He mentions huge boneyards that have been searched, and no evidence of animals being shot.
From his research he believes it was the spread of tick fever from the cattle.
Was some pretty interesting discussions. Not.sure if he is 100% accurate, but he had references with numbers that bavked his claims. Highly probable screw worms/Whitetails, Pneumonia/Sheep, Etc This is where I was going with my original thread
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7020978
01/02/18 04:42 AM
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Posts: 110,795
dogcatcher
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https://www.fws.gov/bisonrange/timeline.htm 1870
An estimated two million bison were killed this year on the southern plains. Germany had developed a process to tan bison hides into fine leather.
Homesteaders collected bones from carcasses left by hunters. Bison bones were used in refining sugar, and in making fertilizer and fine bone china. Bison bones brought from $2.50 to $15.00 a ton. Based on an average price of $8 per ton they brought 2.5 million dollars into Kansas alone between 1868 and 1881. Assuming that about 100 skeletons were required to make one ton of bones, this represented the remains of more than 31 million bison.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back.
_____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7020982
01/02/18 04:45 AM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 11,904
Simple Searcher
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The OP was apologetic for not using the word bison, but he needn't be. People seem to think bison was a native American term but it isn't. Both buffalo and bison come from the ancient Greek and Roman words for "wild ox". I'll confess, I'm not sorry. I'll say things like Buffalo and could care less and ain't and my 4th grade English teacher can kiss off I didn't mean that , Mrs. Felt was a real nice lady I was glad it was cleared up before things got started, just another point that would have been argued, I have seen it over buffalo/bison before.
![[Linked Image]](https://live.staticflickr.com/4340/36432483774_50a6be0c41_m.jpg) "Man is still a hunter, still a simple searcher after meat..." Robert C. Ruark
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Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison
[Re: Sneaky]
#7022359
01/03/18 02:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,268
7mag
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American Bison by Steve Rinella.......that is all
![[Linked Image]](https://s20.postimg.cc/5cn5isf7d/20180718_153033_1531957938497.jpg) "Laugh with many, but don't trust any"
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Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison
[Re: dogcatcher]
#7022785
01/03/18 02:24 PM
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Posts: 1,071
sprigsss
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https://www.fws.gov/bisonrange/timeline.htm 1870
An estimated two million bison were killed this year on the southern plains. Germany had developed a process to tan bison hides into fine leather.
Homesteaders collected bones from carcasses left by hunters. Bison bones were used in refining sugar, and in making fertilizer and fine bone china. Bison bones brought from $2.50 to $15.00 a ton. Based on an average price of $8 per ton they brought 2.5 million dollars into Kansas alone between 1868 and 1881. Assuming that about 100 skeletons were required to make one ton of bones, this represented the remains of more than 31 million bison. Is it possible that many of those bones were from animals that were not shot to death? An estimated 2 million were killed, based on what population? I see a lot of MLD programs that issue tags based on 30% of the population. I see a lot of numbers thrown around like 60-80 million population and that is compared with total amount of animals killed. Were the animals not still reproducing? So how many offspring did those 60-80 million buffalo produce over the decades in question? Not saying hunters didn't play a part in reducing their numbers, but I do believe there were other factors that lead to their demise.
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Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7022805
01/03/18 02:41 PM
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Posts: 1,071
sprigsss
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Some hunters ventured out to kill buffalo and returned with bones, rather than hides. Why was that? Certainly the hides were worth more than bones. Perhaps these hunters didn't shoot the animals to which the bones belonged. http://www.petersenshunting.com/big-game/buffalo-hunted-to-near-extinction/
Last edited by sprigsss; 01/03/18 02:42 PM.
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Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7023122
01/03/18 06:02 PM
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Cherokee Mingan
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White man killed them. They didn't vanish after we showed up by coincidence. Maybe there wasn't 60 million bullets available during that time all at once but people can make a very large impact if just given some time. Think outside the box a little and more of a timeline rather than in an instant.
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Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison
[Re: sprigsss]
#7023215
01/03/18 07:23 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,795
dogcatcher
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https://www.fws.gov/bisonrange/timeline.htm 1870
An estimated two million bison were killed this year on the southern plains. Germany had developed a process to tan bison hides into fine leather.
Homesteaders collected bones from carcasses left by hunters. Bison bones were used in refining sugar, and in making fertilizer and fine bone china. Bison bones brought from $2.50 to $15.00 a ton. Based on an average price of $8 per ton they brought 2.5 million dollars into Kansas alone between 1868 and 1881. Assuming that about 100 skeletons were required to make one ton of bones, this represented the remains of more than 31 million bison. Is it possible that many of those bones were from animals that were not shot to death? An estimated 2 million were killed, based on what population? I see a lot of MLD programs that issue tags based on 30% of the population. I see a lot of numbers thrown around like 60-80 million population and that is compared with total amount of animals killed. Were the animals not still reproducing? So how many offspring did those 60-80 million buffalo produce over the decades in question? Not saying hunters didn't play a part in reducing their numbers, but I do believe there were other factors that lead to their demise. To get your answers you need to read the complete article at the link I posted.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back.
_____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison
[Re: dogcatcher]
#7023267
01/03/18 08:06 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,071
sprigsss
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https://www.fws.gov/bisonrange/timeline.htm 1870
An estimated two million bison were killed this year on the southern plains. Germany had developed a process to tan bison hides into fine leather.
Homesteaders collected bones from carcasses left by hunters. Bison bones were used in refining sugar, and in making fertilizer and fine bone china. Bison bones brought from $2.50 to $15.00 a ton. Based on an average price of $8 per ton they brought 2.5 million dollars into Kansas alone between 1868 and 1881. Assuming that about 100 skeletons were required to make one ton of bones, this represented the remains of more than 31 million bison. Is it possible that many of those bones were from animals that were not shot to death? An estimated 2 million were killed, based on what population? I see a lot of MLD programs that issue tags based on 30% of the population. I see a lot of numbers thrown around like 60-80 million population and that is compared with total amount of animals killed. Were the animals not still reproducing? So how many offspring did those 60-80 million buffalo produce over the decades in question? Not saying hunters didn't play a part in reducing their numbers, but I do believe there were other factors that lead to their demise. To get your answers you need to read the complete article at the link I posted. I read the complete article. It doesn't answer anything. It mentions disease once that I remember and attributes the numbers reported to hunters. With the exception of the 31 million estimated from tons of bones, the rest of the reported harvests wouldn't put a dent in the population. Its also a fact that when many hunters went out to look for buffalo they returned with bones and no hides. Why would they leave the more valuable hides and return with less valuable bones? Much easier to transfer 2-3 hides than a ton of bones.
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Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison
[Re: Cherokee Mingan]
#7023276
01/03/18 08:09 PM
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sprigsss
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White man killed them. They didn't vanish after we showed up by coincidence. Maybe there wasn't 60 million bullets available during that time all at once but people can make a very large impact if just given some time. Think outside the box a little and more of a timeline rather than in an instant. Did white man cause the buffalo disappearance? Yes, I don't think anyone is arguing that. Did white man wipe them out by shooting them 1 at a time? I seriously doubt that.
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Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison
[Re: sprigsss]
#7023284
01/03/18 08:13 PM
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,363
Cherokee Mingan
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White man killed them. They didn't vanish after we showed up by coincidence. Maybe there wasn't 60 million bullets available during that time all at once but people can make a very large impact if just given some time. Think outside the box a little and more of a timeline rather than in an instant. Did white man cause the buffalo disappearance? Yes, I don't think anyone is arguing that. Did white man wipe them out by shooting them 1 at a time? I seriously doubt that. Actually yes, they probably did kill the majority of them 1 at a time over a length of time. Same with several other species that were over hunted, combined with other factors.
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Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7023748
01/04/18 01:23 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,357
Hirogen
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Pretty sure Putin's ancestors did it as revenge for getting taken when they sold Alaska in 1859. On the bright side it was good for climate change as the average bison produces 4 times as much greenhouse gas as the average cow does over the course of its life.
Last edited by Hirogen; 01/04/18 01:24 AM.
Never violate a woman, nor harm a child. Do not lie, cheat or steal. These things are for lesser men. Protect the weak against the evil strong. And never allow thoughts of gain to lead you into the pursuit of evil.
-The Iron Code of Druss the Legend
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Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7023837
01/04/18 02:34 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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I think the werefeet killed ‘em.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison
[Re: Cherokee Mingan]
#7023927
01/04/18 03:38 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,163
ntxtrapper
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White man killed them. They didn't vanish after we showed up by coincidence. Maybe there wasn't 60 million bullets available during that time all at once but people can make a very large impact if just given some time. Think outside the box a little and more of a timeline rather than in an instant. There were many ethnicities involved in westward expansion and were hunting them for profit. To say "White man killed them" seems a bit uninformed to me. Perhaps the most accurate description would be, the new indigenous people, killed them.
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Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7023946
01/04/18 03:45 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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“new indigenous” is an oxymoron.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#7023953
01/04/18 03:51 AM
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Posts: 1,687
SherpaPhil
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“new indigenous” is an oxymoron. Truth.
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Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#7024137
01/04/18 12:32 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,163
ntxtrapper
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“new indigenous” is an oxymoron. When we're gone and the newer people inhabit this part of the planet, and history forgets there were others here before we took the land from the previous inhabitants, I'm assuming we will be referred to as indigenous. Exactly like what has recently occurred with the term "indigenous". New indigenous was my attempt at irony that was missed.
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Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7024215
01/04/18 01:43 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 705
Age N Score ?
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I Feed Indian Corn. The deer love it and all the colors make them stay at the feeder longer.
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Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison
[Re: Cherokee Mingan]
#7024352
01/04/18 02:48 PM
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sprigsss
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White man killed them. They didn't vanish after we showed up by coincidence. Maybe there wasn't 60 million bullets available during that time all at once but people can make a very large impact if just given some time. Think outside the box a little and more of a timeline rather than in an instant. Did white man cause the buffalo disappearance? Yes, I don't think anyone is arguing that. Did white man wipe them out by shooting them 1 at a time? I seriously doubt that. Actually yes, they probably did kill the majority of them 1 at a time over a length of time. Same with several other species that were over hunted, combined with other factors. So do you believe disease played no part? How do you explain the huge piles of remains that were investigated that showed no evidence of ever having been shot? Disease will wreak havoc at far greater rates than man with a gun.
Last edited by sprigsss; 01/04/18 02:49 PM.
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Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison
[Re: sprigsss]
#7024466
01/04/18 04:02 PM
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,363
Cherokee Mingan
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White man killed them. They didn't vanish after we showed up by coincidence. Maybe there wasn't 60 million bullets available during that time all at once but people can make a very large impact if just given some time. Think outside the box a little and more of a timeline rather than in an instant. Did white man cause the buffalo disappearance? Yes, I don't think anyone is arguing that. Did white man wipe them out by shooting them 1 at a time? I seriously doubt that. Actually yes, they probably did kill the majority of them 1 at a time over a length of time. Same with several other species that were over hunted, combined with other factors. So do you believe disease played no part? How do you explain the huge piles of remains that were investigated that showed no evidence of ever having been shot? Disease will wreak havoc at far greater rates than man with a gun.
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