texashuntingforum.com logo
Main Menu
Advertisement
Affiliates
Advertisement
Newest Members
TraeMartin, Beatixre, MooseSteed, Trappernewt, casyoo
71987 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
dogcatcher 110,788
bill oxner 91,416
SnakeWrangler 65,416
stxranchman 60,296
Gravytrain 46,950
RKHarm24 44,585
rifleman 44,461
Stub 43,769
Forum Statistics
Forums46
Topics537,005
Posts9,719,363
Members86,987
Most Online25,604
Feb 12th, 2024
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Interesting Gunsmith Post #7002646 12/19/17 06:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,422
J
jeffbird Offline OP
Extreme Tracker
OP Offline
Extreme Tracker
J
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,422
from another forum, thought this might be of interest. The discussion was about Weatherby's new advertising descriptions and wandered off as threads do.

The highlights are in the original.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthread...ns#Post12478715


Originally Posted By: szihn
I would take a Howa action (Weatherby Vanguard) in preference to about any other push feed action with a possible exception of a Ruger American. (Jury is still out. The American is too new to know for sure, but so far I have had no complaints or issues with the Rugers)

As a gunsmith I get to see the bad ones and the "sick guns" and the ones that I fix the most are the 700 Remington actions.

The one that I have seen break 4 times, and the company will NOT do a thing to help is Tikka. 4 of them have come to my shop with the bolt body broken out behind the root of the bolt handle. (the rear of the dovetail) Tikka says "tough" and will do NOTHING to help At ALL! For that reason alone I will not recommend Tikka. Too bad, they are super smooth and super accurate, but they have NO and I do mean NO customer support at all.

I can't say what Howa's policy is because I have never seen one break. I have seen a few minor issues that I was able to fix with the extractors dragging when left to rust. Easy fix, and not the fault of the gun. I don't like the cheep feeling bottom metal and painted decal "HOWA" on the floor plate, but that just a preference. As far as function goes, I rank the Howa as either the #1 push feed action on the American market, or a tie for 1st place with the new Ruger.

I did have a Weatherby Mk5 come in for a restock last year with a broken trigger guard. The customer had a plastic stock and wanted one of my nice Bastogne stocks so I did the work for him. I had him call Weatherby about the broken TG and they sold him a new one at a very high price (about $140 is what he told me) That's a different action and a different importer than Legacy USA however. So I have no idea what Legacy would have done if it had been a Howa action. Might be worth a phone call just to ask.
If anything was to make me lean to the Ruger over the Howa it would be customer support. I know that if anything breaks on a Ruger they replace it free. Legacy/Howa may do the same, but you'd need to call them and find out.


Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: jeffbird] #7002668 12/19/17 06:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,907
C
ChadTRG42 Online Happy
THF Celebrity
Online Happy
THF Celebrity
C
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,907
The Howa 1500/Weatherby Vanguard (same action) is a good action. The main issue with gun smith's on them is that the action threading is metric (Rem 700 and Tikka) are American Standard threading. Plus, the Howa actions have a tapered thread pitch, meaning the threading gets tighter the more you screw the barrel into the action. And there has not been a lot of aftermarket items for the Howa long action rifles (there are some for the short actions). These are negative trates of the Howa's.

The Tikka's that I have seen damaged were from hot hand loads. Jon Trammel in Breckenridge had 2 Tikka rifles in his shop that were damaged. One was a 6mm something. He laughed (his famous Jon Trammell chuckle) when I asked him about the rifle, because he knew the guy who shot it and was running it really hot. And 6mm's show excessive pressure VERY quickly, and you can go from a warm load to an excessive pressure load very easily. So any rifle can have damage when you over do it.


[Linked Image]
Custom and Precision Ammunition!!
https://DallasReloads.com/
Type 01 and Type 06 FFL
Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: jeffbird] #7002679 12/19/17 06:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 15,612
Q
QuitShootinYoungBucks Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
Q
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 15,612
#1, how do you break the back-end of the bolt unless you're doing something really stupid?
#2, Tikkas aren't that numerous, yet this guy's seen FOUR that have the exact same odd problem?
#3, it's 2017, where are the pics?


[Linked Image]

https://web.archive.org/web/20170223065011/http:/www.rrdvegas.com/silencer-cleaning.html
Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: jeffbird] #7002734 12/19/17 06:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
J.G. Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
popcorn


[Linked Image]
800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #7002968 12/19/17 08:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 26,546
J
JCB Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
J
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 26,546
Originally Posted By: QuitShootinYoungBucks

#3, it's 2017, where are the pics?


^^^^ This

And I am sure there is a email trail to go along with it when they contacted Tikka. Would like to see that as well as the pics.

Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: jeffbird] #7003005 12/19/17 09:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 618
T
Texasteach Offline
Tracker
Offline
Tracker
T
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 618
The person being quoted in the post is not your ordinary screw them together gun plumber. He is perhaps the finest craftsman of traditional style muzzleloaders in the world. He also is a Master Gunsmith and is an incredible stock maker. If he says a bolt broke, I don't need a picture to verify it.


You did what?
Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: jeffbird] #7003103 12/19/17 10:12 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 33,792
B
Buzzsaw Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
B
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 33,792
woot bolt


SPACE FOR RENT


Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: jeffbird] #7003353 12/20/17 01:15 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,502
R
RiverRider Online Confused
THF Trophy Hunter
Online Confused
THF Trophy Hunter
R
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,502
If szihn says it happened, and in the forum where I believe this was picked up, then I am confident that it happened.


[Linked Image]

"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty."

-Augustus McRae
Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: jeffbird] #7003359 12/20/17 01:22 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 26,546
J
JCB Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
J
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 26,546
I don't doubt that it happened but there has to be and explanation as to why it happened and why Tikka refused to do anything about it.

Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: jeffbird] #7003379 12/20/17 01:42 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,766
P_102 Offline
Extreme Tracker
Offline
Extreme Tracker
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,766
Most likely heavy loads, that's why Tikka didn't support. The Howa (Weatherby Vanguard) actions are very smooth, much more so than Rem 700 (I have both), unfortunately the threading is a 'no-go' for some gunsmiths. I look forward to grabbing a Ruger American Varmint when I can. P_102


Do not trifle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: JCB] #7003463 12/20/17 02:48 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
J.G. Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
Originally Posted By: JCB
I don't doubt that it happened but there has to be and explanation as to why it happened and why Tikka refused to do anything about it.


Yup.

Bet I've put 6000 rounds between two Tikka actions. Not a single hiccup.


[Linked Image]
800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: jeffbird] #7003739 12/20/17 11:43 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,209
T
Texas Dan Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
T
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,209
Tikka's are made in Finland, while Ruger's are made in Arizona. That could also explain the differences in Customer Support.


"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: jeffbird] #7003787 12/20/17 12:37 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,443
A
aggiehunter03 Online Content
Veteran Tracker
Online Content
Veteran Tracker
A
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,443
Beretta (Tikka) has horrible customer service. They’re known for it. But their stuff is top notch so I just buy it and hope I never need it again. Sent a Sako back once.

Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: J.G.] #7003969 12/20/17 02:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,160
J
Judd Online Confused
#1 Creedmoor Fan
Online Confused
#1 Creedmoor Fan
J
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,160
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: JCB
I don't doubt that it happened but there has to be and explanation as to why it happened and why Tikka refused to do anything about it.


Yup.

Bet I've put 6000 rounds between two Tikka actions. Not a single hiccup.


Well that explains it...you don't see failures until your are north of 10k on an action nuts




yes, I totally made that up


Originally Posted by Phil Robertson
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: jeffbird] #7004141 12/20/17 04:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,407
W
WileyCoyote Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
W
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,407
A Little History with roots that are still giving evidence of the past...

Tikka and SAKO were merged corporately in 1984 when the Finnish government divested it self of the Tikka & Finn Military machine gun mfg'ing plant ownership.

Beretta has ALWAYS been known for having Zero Customer Service...nothing new here. SAKO cust svc was difficult but could be had in the US when the Sodini Family still ran Stoeger in New Jersey, and had reserected the SAKO line after the Garcia Imports debacle almost killed the SAKO line in the US, before the fallout 'tween Nokia and the LLAMA mfg'ing ownership that is still a family owned operation in Spain who'se primary bidnizz is high quality investment cast lost wax computer to commercial airplane parts ...that later led to Nokia selling SAKO to Beretta. Just Sayin' nuthin' new here about Beretta's Cust Svc.
Ron


It is TIME for Term Limits, cause Politicians are like childrens diapers and for the same reasons...Robin Williams

"These are the times that try men's soul's"...Thomas Paine

"Those who fail to learn from History are doomed to repeat it" ....Santayana
Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: Judd] #7004151 12/20/17 04:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
J.G. Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
Originally Posted By: Judd
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: JCB
I don't doubt that it happened but there has to be and explanation as to why it happened and why Tikka refused to do anything about it.


Yup.

Bet I've put 6000 rounds between two Tikka actions. Not a single hiccup.


Well that explains it...you don't see failures until your are north of 10k on an action nuts




yes, I totally made that up


That must be it. POS actions, they only hold up for 10,000 rounds!


[Linked Image]
800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: WileyCoyote] #7004161 12/20/17 04:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
J.G. Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
Originally Posted By: WileyCoyote
SAKO cust svc was difficult but could be had in the US when the Sodini Family still ran Stoeger in New Jersey, and had reserected the SAKO line after the Garcia Imports debacle almost killed the SAKO line in the US, before the fallout 'tween Nokia and the LLAMA mfg'ing ownership that is still a family owned operation in Spain who'se primary bidnizz is high quality lost wax computer to commercial airplane parts ...that later led to Nokia selling SAKO to Beretta.


Longest run-on sentence ever!

roflmao


[Linked Image]
800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: jeffbird] #7004232 12/20/17 04:50 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,407
W
WileyCoyote Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
W
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,407
Nah...I can do LOTS better than thaat... banana

It's called "stream of concienness" writing" made infamous by Jack Kerouack book of "Travel's with Charly" of hitchiking across the country in the early '50s' while TOTALLY STONED...and why I had to take Freshman English 3 times in college... bolt
Ron


It is TIME for Term Limits, cause Politicians are like childrens diapers and for the same reasons...Robin Williams

"These are the times that try men's soul's"...Thomas Paine

"Those who fail to learn from History are doomed to repeat it" ....Santayana
Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: WileyCoyote] #7004235 12/20/17 04:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
J.G. Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
Originally Posted By: WileyCoyote
Nah...I can do LOTS better than thaat... banana
Ron


I know you can! grin


[Linked Image]
800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: jeffbird] #7004319 12/20/17 05:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,481
R
redchevy Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
R
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,481
OMG this isn't going to go over well.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: J.G.] #7004376 12/20/17 06:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,407
W
WileyCoyote Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
W
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,407
...or conceniousness, depending on your level of sobriety on any given day... cyclo
Ron


It is TIME for Term Limits, cause Politicians are like childrens diapers and for the same reasons...Robin Williams

"These are the times that try men's soul's"...Thomas Paine

"Those who fail to learn from History are doomed to repeat it" ....Santayana
Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: Texas Dan] #7005132 12/21/17 04:32 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 757
F
fast88 Offline
Tracker
Offline
Tracker
F
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 757
Originally Posted By: Texas Dan
Tikka's are made in Finland, while Ruger's are made in Arizona. That could also explain the differences in Customer Support.


There are many foreign companies that have excellent customer service e.g. Accuracy International, Zeiss and Swarovski . That can’t be an acceptable reason to have poor customer support in a country they sell products in.

Last edited by fast88; 12/21/17 04:34 AM.
Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: jeffbird] #7005273 12/21/17 12:46 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,158
W
wp75169 Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
W
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,158
Beretta... that pretty much covers it in my opinion. I tried a few years back to communicate with them about several rifles that tikka made but they would not import. Their response was less than stellar with form emails telling me where to shop based on my location to get the rifles they do import. I’m considering having a rifle brought in out of Canada because they actually have them there.

I have had issues with a ruger and a Springfield EMP. Both companies had awesome service, fixed my guns, paid for shipping, apologized, and sent them back with more than I sent them.

For anyone curious no I didn’t want beretta to import a gun just for me. I did however expect them to help guide me in the direction I needed to go. That’s what I consider customer service.

Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: Texasteach] #7005374 12/21/17 02:12 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 15,612
Q
QuitShootinYoungBucks Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
Q
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 15,612
Originally Posted By: Texasteach
The person being quoted in the post is not your ordinary screw them together gun plumber. He is perhaps the finest craftsman of traditional style muzzleloaders in the world. He also is a Master Gunsmith and is an incredible stock maker. If he says a bolt broke, I don't need a picture to verify it.


I'd like to see WHERE it broke. Was it the same bolt that broke four times? Did these all belong to the same owner? The back of the bolt isn't a pressure point, it is certainly weird that it would break in that location. Aftermarket stock that the bolt was hitting?


[Linked Image]

https://web.archive.org/web/20170223065011/http:/www.rrdvegas.com/silencer-cleaning.html
Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: jeffbird] #7005380 12/21/17 02:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,655
C
colt45-90 Offline
Texas colt45
Offline
Texas colt45
C
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,655
operator errors


hold on Newt, we got a runaway
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

© 2004-2024 OUTDOOR SITES NETWORK all rights reserved USA and Worldwide
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3