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Feb 12th, 2024
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 Re: Is Color Important?
[Re: Leonardo]
#7007686
12/22/17 10:15 PM
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 5,198
Smokey Bear
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 5,198 |
In your scenario I think we both know it's a crap shoot. The liter that has two standouts would not be what I am looking for. The sire that wins at the highest level and is proven to have a very high genetic general combining ability is where to start. Then select from a previous cross that has proven to produce multiple contenders, color be damned. The reality of that is your probably going to be looking at mostly black liters. Picking a puppy from the right liter should be a crap shoot instead of only two standouts you want.
Smokey Bear---Lone Star State.
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Re: Is Color Important?
[Re: Guy]
#7007714
12/22/17 10:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,574
Leonardo
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,574 |
Let me ask a question, this should make my point crystal clear. This is a question for smokey and whoever. Lets say there is a litter you must pick from. 2 pups, same litter. These 2 pups are identical. I mean the weight the same, walk the same, bark them same...You throw a stick, both pups run to it and both grab it at the same time, they play tug of war over it, no one wins, they both fall asleep same time from exhaustion. I mean you examine these pups, they are exactly the same, except one difference, one is black and one is yellow. Which one you say has a higher probability, given same trainer, to become a FT champ? I say both are equally the same. If I am into breeding or selling puppies I pick the yellow one. Just on the chance I have a yellow champ. People want to be different and he is more marketable than the black pup outside of field trial circles because there are so few of them. Same reason people put a lift on a pickup truck, buy after market wheels, ect... People like to go against the grain and say "see I told ya"
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Re: Is Color Important?
[Re: BradyBuck]
#7007815
12/22/17 11:33 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 487
Birdhunter61
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 487 |
I think what Guy is saying is that while yes, black dog dominate field trials it's not because they are black. The color has nothing to do with it. You wouldn't buy a black lab an just think it's going to be great just because it's black.
I don't think anyone would argue that.
If you were looking for a field trial prospect you would go look at litters from the top Field trial dogs and they would be black.
I have seen several litters in the last year by different AFC FC chocolate sires and you could definitely look at getting your next FT prospect out of a couple of those litters. There are many variables that make a good field trial dog. What color it is isn't one of them. Robby
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Re: Is Color Important?
[Re: Birdhunter61]
#7007821
12/22/17 11:37 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 35,498
Guy
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 35,498 |
I think what Guy is saying is that while yes, black dog dominate field trials it's not because they are black. The color has nothing to do with it. You wouldn't buy a black lab an just think it's going to be great just because it's black.
I don't think anyone would argue that.
If you were looking for a field trial prospect you would go look at litters from the top Field trial dogs and they would be black.
I have seen several litters in the last year by different AFC FC chocolate sires and you could definitely look at getting your next FT prospect out of a couple of those litters. There are many variables that make a good field trial dog. What color it is isn't one of them. Robby Ok, so now we are making some progress. 
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Re: Is Color Important?
[Re: BradyBuck]
#7008138
12/23/17 02:52 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,574
Leonardo
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,574 |
If I was looking for a FT prospect black is where I would start. That’s ignorant. For FT prospect the fact is when you go to start looking 95% of all the litters you are going to be looking at will be black. It's putting cart before the horse. It's not that you won't probably end up with a black puppy it's that you say you'd start with looking at black litters. Don't start by looking at black litters, start by looking at the best FT dogs and it will just happen to be that most of them are black. If you just go looking at any ol black litter and say "well this litter is black I bet they'll be good field trial dogs because black dogs dominate field trials" you will be sorely disappointed. Again, that doesn't mean that there aren't some possibilities of getting a good FT prospect in another color it's just that there are ton more good FT breedings that are black. However, how many people on the forum besides Robby are going to be running in any FTs any time soon??? The fact is while FT's are dominated by black dogs it's not hard to find a very very good hunt test breeding in chocolate or yellow and end up with a dog 99% of people would be proud to share a blind with or walk up to the line with at a HT. I have young dogs competing in field trials. Placed 4th last weekend at Bluebonnet Qualifying. Have two young dogs training to compete in Derby's this summer. They are with a trainer. Wish I had the time and resources to compete at the FT level. Have a female that is 2 for 2 in Master, a already has her SH. Have a male with a SH. The hunt test dogs I have done a majority of their training with some help.
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Re: Is Color Important?
[Re: Leonardo]
#7009334
12/24/17 02:14 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 487
Birdhunter61
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 487 |
So my 4 yr old FC AFC Mickey, is Blk, but yellow factored. 2 litters on the ground, 50% yellow the other blk. Either color has the same bloodlines, so each has the opportunity to be a competitive dog under the right circumstances.
Robby
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Re: Is Color Important?
[Re: Leonardo]
#7034898
01/12/18 12:29 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 487
Birdhunter61
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 487 |
If yall are interested here is the ranking of each breed in 2017 in the open, am, and derby
TOP ALL AGE DOGS
In 2017, 695 dogs earned at least a half Open or Amateur point. That number is unchanged from 2016. Interestingly, 261 dogs (38%) were new to the 2017 list. You can see the rest of the dogs and their 2017 Rankings here.
Here are the top dogs by breed, color and sex. Note: Ranking reflects ranking for all dogs; age is age at time of last points earned.
Overall Ranking
Dog/Owner
C/B/S
Age Wins Pts
1
FC-AFC Hockley Creek's Switch Hitter
Robbie Bickley
BLM 4.2 7 51.5
2
FC-AFC Lock Five's My Mother's Keeper
Bill & Jamie Woodson
BLF 10.6 6 42.5
19
FC-AFC Mckinley FIrst Ascender - Hudson
Bill Barstow
YLM 7.6 3 24
27
FC-AFC Freeridin Miss Kitty
Ted Shih
YLF
7 2 18.5
36
FC-AFC Lacrosse KC's Don't Mess with Texas
Ron Cerf GM 7.6 2 14
44 CH Comet's Deepwater Rock n' Roll Ruby
Linda Harger CF 5.4 2 10
46
WBF's Man on the Stand
Kate Macartney
CLM 5.3 1
9
53 Dr. Nicks No Da of Maggie Creek
George Fiebelkorn
GF 7.9 1
5.5
54 Kingsland Jazzed Jenever
Frank Ganley CLF 5.4 1 5
58 Lzy Mtn Piper's Revenge
Jim Price and Todd Adams CM 6.5 0 3
58 Topsail's Good Time Buddy
Robin Orr CM 3.4 0 3
TOP OPEN DOGS
In 2017, 470 dogs earned at least a half point. As with the All Age dogs, the numbers are similar to last year (471 dogs). However, almost half (46%) were new to the 2017 list. You can see the rest of the dogs and their 2017 Rankings here.
Note: Ranking reflects ranking for all dogs; age is age at time of last points earned.
Overall Ranking
Dog/Owner
C/B/S
Age
Wins
Pts
l
FC Magic Trick's Zuma
David Aul, DVM
BLM 8.6 4 33.5
3
FC-AFC Lubys and Whitewaters Pirates Jewel
Jeff Schuett, DVM and Lydia Fekula
BLF 8.6 4 24.5
9
FC RMR Ebonstars Magic SH
Frank Higgins
YLF 7.8 2 17
18
FC-AFC Topbrass Linekin's Riptide
Cameron Clark
GM 10.6 1 12
20
FC Duck Buster's Red Barron
Lou Magee
YLM 5.7 1 11
20
FC-AFC Mckinley First Ascender - Hudson
Bill Barstow
YLM 7.5 2 11
24
WBF's Man on the Stand
Kate Macartney
CLM 5.3 1 9
32
Kingsland Jazzed Jenever
Frank Ganley
CLF 5.4 1 5
32
CH Comet's Deepwater Rock n' Roll Ruby
Linda Harger
CF 5.4 1 5
36
Topsail's Good Time Buddy
Robin Orr CM 3.4 0 3
41
Dr. Nicks No Da Of Maggie Creek
George Fiebelkorn GF 7.4 0 0.5
41
FC-AFC Port Costas Chantilly Lace
Tammy Zahornacky GF 9.8 0 0.5
TOP AMATEUR DOGS
In 2017, 485 dogs earned at least a half point. This is an increase of 3% from 2016. Similar to the Open list above, 44% of the dogs were new to the list. You can see the rest of the dogs here.
Note: Ranking reflects ranking for all dogs; age is age at time of last points earned.
Overall Ranking Dog/Owner C/B/S Age Wins Pts
1
FC-AFC Lock Five's My Mother's Keeper
Bill & Jamie Woodson BLF 10.6 5 34.5
2
FC-AFC Hockley Creek's Switch Hitter
Robby Bickley BLM 4.2 4 31.5
11
AFC High Society's Hatari Rumble
Sylvia McClure and Laurie Junewick YLF 4.5 2 14
13
FC-AFC Mckinley First Ascender - Hudson
Bill Barstow YLM 7.6 1 13
18
AFC Alexi and Sam's Lil' Bro Terlingua
Rob Laishley GM 8.4 2 10
28
CH Comet's Deepwater Rock n' Roll Ruby
Linda Harger CF 5.4 1 5
28
Benson Bobo's Kaw From Ouranos
Jason Ross CLM 2.3 1 5
28
Dr. Nicks No Da of Maggie Creek
Geroge Fiebelkorn GF 7.9 1 5
32
Lzy Mtn Piper's Revenge
Jim Price and Todd Adams CM 6.5 0 3
TOP DERBY DOGS
2017 Points
363 dogs earned at least one point in 2017 Derby events.We have two cuts at representing Derby dogs. The first list is of points earned in 2017.
Here are the top dogs by breed, color and sex for points earned in 2017. You can see the rest of the dogs on the list here.
Note: Ranking reflects ranking for all dogs regardless of breed or sex; age is age at time of last points earned. Points include results from the National Derby Championship.
Overall Ranking
Dog/Owner
C/B/S
Age
Wins
Pts
1
Hockley Creek's Southpaw
Robby Bickley BLM 1.9 6 41
2
Buckhead's A Dog Named Desire
Pierce & Gina Blitch
BLF 1.9 3 39
9
Bird Creek's Doc Holiday
Chuck Cagle YLM 1.9 2 30
9
Firemark Orange Crush
Jean Grammer and Tom Hartl GM 1.9 2 27
12
Sealock's Stevie Wilder
Carol Sealock YLF 1.9 2 23
22
Rebel Ridge Hellor Highwater
Jim Monks CLF 1.9 0 12
22
Zoomerang Mr. Big
Lois Gebrian CLM 1.9 1 12
23
Risky River's Fifty Shades of Brown
Briedi Gillespie CM 1.9 1 11
28
Duso's Baker's Dozen
Brenda Lokey GF 1.6 1 6
29
Paradise's Forever Bailando Contigo SH
Eileen Gevers FCM 1.9 1 5
Per Retriever results. They also have the breakdown of the titles of each breed accomplished in 2017
Robby
Last edited by Birdhunter61; 01/12/18 12:37 AM.
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Re: Is Color Important?
[Re: Leonardo]
#7040159
01/16/18 04:20 PM
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Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 27
HiBanksDeer
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 27 |
We've had several FCs/AFCs throughout the years, all have been black. Prior to that, some of our very best dogs to this day were yellow and chocolate. But my question is, I've heard for years that the Chocolates aren't as prevalent in the Field Trial game due to everyone breeding chocolates with whatever other chocolate lab they could find, just to get a litter of desirable color, thus making a large amount of chocolates not as smart. Any truth to that?
HiBanks Ranch Red Deer and Labrador Retrievers
"Big Tines & Straight Lines"
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Re: Is Color Important?
[Re: HiBanksDeer]
#7040180
01/16/18 04:34 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 8,281
BradyBuck
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 8,281 |
We've had several FCs/AFCs throughout the years, all have been black. Prior to that, some of our very best dogs to this day were yellow and chocolate. But my question is, I've heard for years that the Chocolates aren't as prevalent in the Field Trial game due to everyone breeding chocolates with whatever other chocolate lab they could find, just to get a litter of desirable color, thus making a large amount of chocolates not as smart. Any truth to that? Yes, there is. That's why it is important to look at pedigree (not color) more so with labs than any other breed in my opinion. There is such a huge range of ability and temperament within the breed. Congrats Robby!  I know that's a lot of hard work.
Last edited by BradyBuck; 01/16/18 04:35 PM.
HRCH Washita's Kimber Locked N Loaded
GRHRCH Firefly's Rally The Troops MH
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