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Cannot Remember This Phenomenon #6986485 12/07/17 01:40 PM
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DStroud Offline OP
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Has there ever been a new Cartridge come to market that was so popular it created a shortage of powder to reload it with?
I don’t remember that ever happening before now with the Creedmoor’s and H 4350

Just was thinking about this after calls about what was the best powder to get for their new Creedmoor from multiple folks.


"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."

Jack O'Connor 1963
Re: Cannot Remember This Phenomenon [Re: DStroud] #6986553 12/07/17 02:20 PM
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kmon11 Offline
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Not that I can recall.


lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true
Mainstream news might be fun to watch
Re: Cannot Remember This Phenomenon [Re: DStroud] #6986564 12/07/17 02:27 PM
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Never laid eyes on a creedmor but have several pounds of 4350 on the bench and many of my loads use it. I think it is just a really good popular powder choice. I also think the stock pile mentality bites us all in the rear.


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Re: Cannot Remember This Phenomenon [Re: DStroud] #6986662 12/07/17 03:20 PM
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Yes, it is the go-to powder, for sure. I spoke to Hodgdon about it, and they are bringing in 3x-4x the amount they used to of H4350, and still have a shortage. The demand for it has heavily risen. But there are other powders that will work well- IMR 4451, IMR 4350


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Re: Cannot Remember This Phenomenon [Re: DStroud] #6986779 12/07/17 04:11 PM
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If I recall my history correctly, IMR 4350 was introduced in 1940 for the growing interest in the .300 H&H cartridge. It's funny how the first magnum powder is still the most generally useful, albeit in the Hodgdon flavor.


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Re: Cannot Remember This Phenomenon [Re: DStroud] #6986799 12/07/17 04:18 PM
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A few years ago it was Varget. Everyone shot 308 and more and more competitions were being held. You couldn't get Varget, and it was going for a premium.


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Re: Cannot Remember This Phenomenon [Re: redchevy] #6986863 12/07/17 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted By: redchevy
Never laid eyes on a creedmor but have several pounds of 4350 on the bench and many of my loads use it. I think it is just a really good popular powder choice. I also think the stock pile mentality bites us all in the rear.


No I agree its a good powder BUT as Chad said when overall powder gets tight as it did a while back powders like Varget were hard to get as I would guess and say its more popular than H4350 WAS. And why does IMR 4350 not dry up too.... because Hornady first loaded their 6.5 Creedmoor Match ammo with the data on the box showing H4350 and now you can't hardly find the stuff.

Another point..... I have H4350(a few pounds)but rarely use it in the Creedmoor. I use Reloader 16 and now you can hardly find it once folks discovered how well it worked in the Creedmoor. Do you could say it's created shortages of two powders it's so popular.

Oh and I started this post for Scottfromdallas as he is such a fanboy for the Creedmoor.... cheers

Last edited by DStroud; 12/07/17 05:02 PM.

"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."

Jack O'Connor 1963
Re: Cannot Remember This Phenomenon [Re: ChadTRG42] #6986880 12/07/17 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
A few years ago it was Varget. Everyone shot 308 and more and more competitions were being held. You couldn't get Varget, and it was going for a premium.


Very true, the flavor of the day cartridge and usage is what dictates the availability of the powder to an extent.

Flavor of the day cartridges can affect availability of components.


lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true
Mainstream news might be fun to watch
Re: Cannot Remember This Phenomenon [Re: DStroud] #6987251 12/07/17 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted By: DStroud
Originally Posted By: redchevy
Never laid eyes on a creedmor but have several pounds of 4350 on the bench and many of my loads use it. I think it is just a really good popular powder choice. I also think the stock pile mentality bites us all in the rear.


No I agree its a good powder BUT as Chad said when overall powder gets tight as it did a while back powders like Varget were hard to get as I would guess and say its more popular than H4350 WAS. And why does IMR 4350 not dry up too.... because Hornady first loaded their 6.5 Creedmoor Match ammo with the data on the box showing H4350 and now you can't hardly find the stuff.

Another point..... I have H4350(a few pounds)but rarely use it in the Creedmoor. I use Reloader 16 and now you can hardly find it once folks discovered how well it worked in the Creedmoor. Do you could say it's created shortages of two powders it's so popular.

Oh and I started this post for Scottfromdallas as he is such a fanboy for the Creedmoor.... cheers


^^All true.

Chad told me a trade secret about a powder for a recent project. And I have no shared what it is. Nope, not gonna do it. grin


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Re: Cannot Remember This Phenomenon [Re: J.G.] #6987321 12/07/17 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Chad told me a trade secret about a powder for a recent project. And I have no shared what it is. Nope, not gonna do it. grin


Then shut up about it you prick tease grin


Originally Posted by Phil Robertson
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
Re: Cannot Remember This Phenomenon [Re: DStroud] #6987353 12/07/17 10:21 PM
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LMAO!! (What's the secret? I don't know!!!)


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Re: Cannot Remember This Phenomenon [Re: DStroud] #6988139 12/08/17 01:59 PM
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The availability of internet for advertising and word of mouth through forums such as this have helped to increase the popularity of great new products. Not to mention that people seem to have more available money or credit now than they did yeas ago. It's great to be an American cool


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Re: Cannot Remember This Phenomenon [Re: DStroud] #6988469 12/08/17 05:22 PM
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It for sure has take over for Varget in hard to find category. Though I see it for sale on forums often but not in stores.
the only thing harder to find is Fed215M primers. Id lump Berger 215 hybrids into that group as well.


Re: Cannot Remember This Phenomenon [Re: DStroud] #6990466 12/10/17 01:13 PM
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I use H4350 for 6.5x55 and 257R exclusively. I'm about to give up waiting for it and try IMR4451.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2016/06/guide-to-imrs-enduron-powders-what-you-need-to-know/

"IMR 4451 is a mid-range burn speed powder, ideally suited for cartridges such as .270 Winchester, .30-06 and 300 Winchester Short Magnum. This powder is comparable to Hodgdon H4350."

"Copper fouling reduction – these powders contain an additive that drastically reduces copper fouling in the gun barrel. Copper fouling should be minimal, allowing shooters to spend more time shooting and less time cleaning a rifle to retain accuracy.

Temperature change stability – the Enduron line is insensitive to temperature changes. Whether a rifle is sighted in during the heat of summer, hunted in a November snowstorm or hunting multiple locations with drastic temperature swings, point of impact with ammunition loaded with Enduron technology will be very consistent.

Optimal load density - Enduron powders provide optimal load density, assisting in maintaining low standard deviations in velocity and pressure, a key feature for top accuracy.

Environmentally friendly - Enduron technology is environmentally friendly, crafted using raw materials that are not harmful to the environment."

Last edited by scottfromdallas; 12/10/17 01:23 PM.


Re: Cannot Remember This Phenomenon [Re: DStroud] #6990555 12/10/17 02:51 PM
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I'm seeing some very good reviews on IMR4451 as a replacement for H4350. I've tried it, but haven't worked with it enough to form my own opinion on it. I have found that Re16 is as good as H4350 in the .30-06, and I see no reason that shouldn't apply to other cartridges where H4350 is fasvored.


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Re: Cannot Remember This Phenomenon [Re: RiverRider] #6990595 12/10/17 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted By: RiverRider
I'm seeing some very good reviews on IMR4451 as a replacement for H4350.


We loaded it in KRoyal's 6.5 Creedmoor two weeks ago, and got very consistent loads. I can't tell you velocity just yet. I loaded the last kernals of H-4350 I had yesterday for 6.5 Creedmoor. I have 10 pounds of IMR-4451 on stand-by for the same rifle. Once I shoot up the 300 rounds I have loaded, I will have no choice but to clean the barrel and switch over. I will report my findings.


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Re: Cannot Remember This Phenomenon [Re: DStroud] #6990614 12/10/17 03:57 PM
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I can't believe that IMR4350 wouldn't work just as well. I switched from H-4350 to IMR4350 when the former became hard to find.



Re: Cannot Remember This Phenomenon [Re: DStroud] #6990619 12/10/17 04:03 PM
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IMR and H 4350 powders are similar but definitely not the same. if I recall correctly from my reloading with IMR-4350 I did get good velocity but not as temp stable as the H-4350.


lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true
Mainstream news might be fun to watch
Re: Cannot Remember This Phenomenon [Re: kmon11] #6990711 12/10/17 05:52 PM
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That's my understanding, IMR-4350 is not as temp stable, so it is not for me.


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Re: Cannot Remember This Phenomenon [Re: DStroud] #6990726 12/10/17 06:16 PM
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But how important is temperature stability? Not important for me.


Re: Cannot Remember This Phenomenon [Re: postoak] #6990747 12/10/17 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted By: postoak
But how important is
temperature stability?


It depends on what your ammo requirements are. For my requirements, temperature stable powder is paramount.

This morning a coyote and I saw each other 500 yards apart (I was in my truck). He was in a plowed field, headed for the tree line and stopped breifly. I worked my way into a position for a shot, and by the time I did, he had made it to the tree line, and vanished in the woods. I lasered his last location anyway, at 638 yards. With a temperature sensitive powder that would make my hit probability lower. It was 34° outside at the time, now it is 65° outside. In either ambient temperature my ammo is going to perform the same. The last thing I need is another factor muddying up potential shots like that.


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Re: Cannot Remember This Phenomenon [Re: postoak] #6990847 12/10/17 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted By: postoak
But how important is temperature stability? Not important for me.


Two uses I much prefer temperature stable powders. The longer the range being shot the more I want temp stable powder like the example Fireman made.

Another thing, if you workup loads this time of year then shoot the same loads you might be over pressure on a hot Summer day. I know I have had loads that way, switched from a very accurate load to one that was a little less accurate but could shoot year round and still open the action after a shot on a 100 degree day.


lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true
Mainstream news might be fun to watch
Re: Cannot Remember This Phenomenon [Re: DStroud] #6991025 12/10/17 11:19 PM
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I don't see why, given a choice, anyone would choose a powder that is sensitive to temp. The IMR link I posted is their new Enduron line which appears to be their version of Hodgdon Extreme which is very temp stable.



Re: Cannot Remember This Phenomenon [Re: DStroud] #6991051 12/10/17 11:46 PM
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Well, I guess I made the mistake of imagining everyone in my situation. I don't shoot long range and I don't go to the range unless the weather is good, so there isn't a huge temperature spread from session to session. Even if there was, I'm interested in my grouping on that day, not comparing to a grouping in different weather conditions.

I do sight-in right before going hunting, whether the weather is good or not. I've never noticed any difference in my shots on actual hunts being off because of the temperature -- I think it would get lost in the "noise" of shooting not-off-the-bench so I'm not going to track down new powder (which itself may be hard to find) and work up new loads just because of that.


Re: Cannot Remember This Phenomenon [Re: DStroud] #6991062 12/10/17 11:56 PM
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Postoak, really for most hunting applications it a hundred feet per second difference doesn't make much difference. Most deer are shot inside 200 yards with most inside 150 and at those shorter ranges 100fs difference shot to shot will still be in the vitals of a deer.

Just like BC isn't that big a deal for those shots either, a round nose 30-30 is still good to 200 yards easy.


lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true
Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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