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#6978655 - 12/01/17 08:43 AM How does a lease institute game management rules?
Deerhunter61 Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 7335
Loc: DFW
I'm on a lease where the idea is to only shoot mature bucks which my understanding is at least 4.5 yrs and older. I believe there's potential to get 150" and better bucks on the lease and I'd like to see if we can get there but in order to do it I think everyone needs to be on the same page. Unfortunately this is where the breakdown is. We have three new guys this year that have hunted places that had no management guidelines and operated by the ole saying if it's brown it's down.

So far this year the below is what's been killed:
Basket 8 - don't know age
9pt - 2.5-3.5
9pt - 3.5
10pt - 3.5-4.5 - Beautiful buck with nice time length but not much on mass. Pencil 10 is how we identified him.
13pt - 3.5 We thought he had pretty nice potential. Not much time length. Scored 119.

We have very few bucks that are older than 3.5 because everyone is killing them and not letting them walk. I think when everyone got on things were explained and we're supposed to have discipline but when these guys see these bucks they simply can't/won't let them walk. I understand that some of these bucks are the best they've ever seen but if they keep killing them they will still be the best they've ever seen.

Thoughts?

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#6978676 - 12/01/17 08:54 AM Re: How does a lease institute game management rules? [Re: Deerhunter61]
redchevy Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 26481
Loc: Texas
You would either need good honest people that all wanted to participate or a lease contract.

How big a property how many hunters? Low fence 4 year old 150 inchers is probably not going to happen. Just saying don't set yourself up for disappointment, you need to have your expectations in line with what is practically achievable.
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#6978766 - 12/01/17 09:57 AM Re: How does a lease institute game management rules? [Re: Deerhunter61]
Texas buckeye Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 11/22/11
Posts: 3565
Loc: Keller
depends on where you are hunting as far as how old things will get anyway. If you are bordered by a bunch of shooters, then any management you do is for the neighbors benefit and not yours.

However, it could be easy to write in some rules for age class and have jaw bones sent off for ageing and stuff. Instituting a management program could be as simple as saying no bucks shot under 4years old or the person must pay double their lease fee...something like that makes people really question their shots. Might make some people mad, but to say you are on a place that wants to shoot mature deer and then have all the bucks shot be 2-3yo, makes no sense.

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#6978769 - 12/01/17 09:58 AM Re: How does a lease institute game management rules? [Re: Deerhunter61]
Russ79 Online   content
Bird Dog

Registered: 12/04/09
Posts: 498
Loc: Nacogdoches, Tx
Who is the lease manager? IF it is not you then make sure he supports this management plan. Here is where it is going to get sticky- if you say the rule is to not shoot anything under 4.5 years old then you are going to have arguments over a buck killed where the lease member says he is 4.5 and the manager or whoever is to be the arbiter for age determination says it is 3.5. But the first thing is to meet with every lease member and provide all of them with a copy of the new lease rules showing the management plan and have everyone sign off that they have read and understood it. If you want, set a penalty for shooting one too young of either monetary or forfeiture of lease membership (or anything in between). Have this meeting as soon as the season is over so that anyone who isn't on board has time to find another lease and ya'll have time to fill openings.

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#6978772 - 12/01/17 10:00 AM Re: How does a lease institute game management rules? [Re: Deerhunter61]
Russ79 Online   content
Bird Dog

Registered: 12/04/09
Posts: 498
Loc: Nacogdoches, Tx
Redchevy has a point, it depends on how big the lease is on how realistic your management goal is to reach. Folks that think they can manage a few hundred acres if it is LF are kidding themselves.

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#6978780 - 12/01/17 10:06 AM Re: How does a lease institute game management rules? [Re: Russ79]
QuitShootinYoungBucks Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/01/12
Posts: 8114
Loc: Lubbock, TX
Originally Posted By: Deerhunter61
I'm on a lease where the idea is to only shoot mature bucks which my understanding is at least 4.5 yrs and older. I believe there's potential to get 150" and better bucks on the lease and I'd like to see if we can get there but in order to do it I think everyone needs to be on the same page. Unfortunately this is where the breakdown is. We have three new guys this year that have hunted places that had no management guidelines and operated by the ole saying if it's brown it's down.

So far this year the below is what's been killed:
Basket 8 - don't know age
9pt - 2.5-3.5
9pt - 3.5
10pt - 3.5-4.5 - Beautiful buck with nice time length but not much on mass. Pencil 10 is how we identified him.
13pt - 3.5 We thought he had pretty nice potential. Not much time length. Scored 119.

We have very few bucks that are older than 3.5 because everyone is killing them and not letting them walk. I think when everyone got on things were explained and we're supposed to have discipline but when these guys see these bucks they simply can't/won't let them walk. I understand that some of these bucks are the best they've ever seen but if they keep killing them they will still be the best they've ever seen.

Thoughts?



It sounds to me like y'all have some vague/not-in-stone guidelines and no lease manager/leader and no real enforcement.

Originally Posted By: Russ79
Who is the lease manager? IF it is not you then make sure he supports this management plan. Here is where it is going to get sticky- if you say the rule is to not shoot anything under 4.5 years old then you are going to have arguments over a buck killed where the lease member says he is 4.5 and the manager or whoever is to be the arbiter for age determination says it is 3.5. But the first thing is to meet with every lease member and provide all of them with a copy of the new lease rules showing the management plan and have everyone sign off that they have read and understood it. If you want, set a penalty for shooting one too young of either monetary or forfeiture of lease membership (or anything in between). Have this meeting as soon as the season is over so that anyone who isn't on board has time to find another lease and ya'll have time to fill openings.


This is good advice and the route I would take.
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#6978793 - 12/01/17 10:10 AM Re: How does a lease institute game management rules? [Re: Russ79]
hook_n_line Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 01/20/12
Posts: 4705
Originally Posted By: Russ79
Redchevy has a point, it depends on how big the lease is on how realistic your management goal is to reach. Folks that think they can manage a few hundred acres if it is LF are kidding themselves.


True. Its got to be a cooperative with your neighbors as well. Easier said than done but it can be done.
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Sometimes it's hard being me! But somebody has to do it.

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#6978802 - 12/01/17 10:15 AM Re: How does a lease institute game management rules? [Re: Deerhunter61]
redchevy Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 26481
Loc: Texas
I'm not a fan of a blanket 4 year old minimum, but it is the much easier rout. Its going to cut back on shooting and there really is no reason to keep them all to 4 years old, there are definitely deer that are inferior, average, and superior when compared to their peers and I see no reason to keep the inferior around any longer than it takes to label them as such, say a 2 year old 4pt, a no brow 6 point, a 3 year old 8 with no tines longer than 2.5 inches etc. Scratching your trigger finger on a cull will keep people more patient for the good ones.
_________________________
It's hell eatin em live

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#6978828 - 12/01/17 10:30 AM Re: How does a lease institute game management rules? [Re: Deerhunter61]
SingleShot85 Offline


Registered: 05/27/09
Posts: 1847
Loc: S.A. and Kinney Co.
just because a place is low fence or just a few hundred acres doesnt mean you go w/ " if its brown its down philosophy" if you can't wait till the deer mature you are out. My rule is if you kill a "trophy" deer less than 5.5 years old or a deer thats not on the cull list, you loose you trophy the next year, basically you're on spike patrol. Our hunters know this prior to signing the lease so if the time comes for punishment, which it has, there is no belly aching.

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#6978839 - 12/01/17 10:51 AM Re: How does a lease institute game management rules? [Re: SingleShot85]
Texas buckeye Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 11/22/11
Posts: 3565
Loc: Keller
Originally Posted By: SingleShot85
just because a place is low fence or just a few hundred acres doesnt mean you go w/ " if its brown its down philosophy" if you can't wait till the deer mature you are out. My rule is if you kill a "trophy" deer less than 5.5 years old or a deer thats not on the cull list, you loose you trophy the next year, basically you're on spike patrol. Our hunters know this prior to signing the lease so if the time comes for punishment, which it has, there is no belly aching.


They would be much better served on doe patrol if trying to manage a place for trophy bucks...depends on the area for sure, but most of texas should shoot more doe than spikes.

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#6978874 - 12/01/17 11:24 AM Re: How does a lease institute game management rules? [Re: Deerhunter61]
Smokey Bear Online   content
Bird Dog

Registered: 05/11/17
Posts: 327
Loc: Texas
Deerhunter61, it has been my experience that a lot more hunters can talk about trophy management than can practice it. Regardless of the size of your lease you can't approach the neighbors before you get your own hunters in sync. Clear guidelines with clear repercussions and consistent adherence to the guidelines is where to start. If the new guys don't fit what your doing they need to go. Doesn't mean you don't like them, they just don't fit in. It sounds like the deer that were shot would have been trophys in 3 more years. It will take the replacement bucks in the womb seven years from now to possibly achieve trophy status. So they set you back 4 years. With that said, if the group is not going to do that and you want to hunt mature bucks you need to move on if the bucks are going to be killed before maturity. It takes a like minded group of hunters to consistently shoot mature low fence deer . Each lease is only as effective as their weakest trigger finger....more important than your "hit list" is a strictly adhered to "don't hit list".
Best of luck with your management endeavors
_________________________
Smokey Bear---Lone Star State.

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#6978910 - 12/01/17 11:54 AM Re: How does a lease institute game management rules? [Re: Deerhunter61]
Navasot Offline
Hollywood

Registered: 09/22/11
Posts: 27459
Loc: Normangee/Navasota TX
Get it in writing have everyone sign then you will have a management plan
_________________________


http://www.j5tractors.com/

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#6978932 - 12/01/17 12:21 PM Re: How does a lease institute game management rules? [Re: Deerhunter61]
BOBO the Clown Offline
decoy

Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 42864
Loc: Metroplex
Easy to set it up, but hard to actually implement.

Make it simple and just set one harvest age. Forget culls or defining them. Pointless at that point it’s a justification to use another buck tag.

Good luck.

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#6978940 - 12/01/17 12:27 PM Re: How does a lease institute game management rules? [Re: Texas buckeye]
SingleShot85 Offline


Registered: 05/27/09
Posts: 1847
Loc: S.A. and Kinney Co.
Originally Posted By: Texas buckeye
Originally Posted By: SingleShot85
just because a place is low fence or just a few hundred acres doesnt mean you go w/ " if its brown its down philosophy" if you can't wait till the deer mature you are out. My rule is if you kill a "trophy" deer less than 5.5 years old or a deer thats not on the cull list, you loose you trophy the next year, basically you're on spike patrol. Our hunters know this prior to signing the lease so if the time comes for punishment, which it has, there is no belly aching.


They would be much better served on doe patrol if trying to manage a place for trophy bucks...depends on the area for sure, but most of texas should shoot more doe than spikes.


Im not telling what to do, I'm answering his question of how do you enforce management on a lease, then gave him a specific example of what I do. I couldn't disagree more w your management advice but thats a separate topic but thanks anyway


Edited by SingleShot85 (12/01/17 04:57 PM)

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#6978945 - 12/01/17 12:34 PM Re: How does a lease institute game management rules? [Re: Deerhunter61]
dogcatcher Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 83591
Loc: Abilene or on the road...
Remember one thing, there may be people on the property next door, that are there to enjoy the few hours they can and do mot give a flip about your or anyone else's management plan. They go to have a few weekends of relaxation away from their normal work bs and city life. Some people are not going to turn deer hunting into a second "job" just to get a trophy.
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_______"Illegitimus non carborundum est"________

_______ Old style calls for today's outdoorsman________

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