Main Menu
Advertisement
Affiliates
Advertisement
Newest Members
jmrmem, Doublebarrl, Reedquinn30, Ron_I, Buddy490
62800 Registered Users
Top Posters
dogcatcher 83613
stxranchman 52093
RWH24 44568
rifleman 44289
BOBO the Clown 42874
bill oxner 41587
BMD 40619
Big Orn 37484
txshntr 34883
sig226fan (Rguns.com) 31419
facebook
Forum Stats
62800 Members
46 Forums
439957 Topics
6058589 Posts

Max Online: 16728 @ 03/25/12 08:51 AM
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#6975960 - 11/29/17 01:59 AM Management Question that I DOUBT I can get a good answer ..
HogSnatch26 Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 72
I have been told time and time again that managing does and killing them until a 1:1 buck to doe ratio is the best solution. Here is my take, and if YOU can tell me an intelligent answer other than what you have heard from other hunters that spout the same BS, than hats off to you.

I have been told that food is limited... BUT in many cases, especially mine there is more wheat, grass, and corn than deer can get their hands on.

I have been told that the does will eat all the corn up so bucks wont come to the feeder... BUT does have always, if anything, brought bucks in.. especially during rut.

I have been told that not all does will get bread... BUT I dont believe that fully, considering most all will go into heat and there are plenty of bucks on our place to bread them.

Hypothetically we have a neighbor shooting 60 does every couple years.. does this not drastically reduce the doe heard? Even if not all does get bread, some does have twins.. so average it out at 1 fawn for every doe (thats being modest). Shooting 60 does reduces the herd 120 deer (with potential bucks). This is not even mentioning the fact that bucks will not come out in the open as much as does, and thus the theory of ratio is out the door because of overestimating the doe population.

This for me is nearly a rhetorical question. I know this THEORY is BS. I know many biologists that do not have a clue, while I am well educated myself on top of having many years of managing experience.

HOWEVER, I am open minded. If you can help me understand this thought process I would be gracious. Thanks

Top
#6975993 - 11/29/17 06:00 AM Re: Management Question that I DOUBT I can get a good answer .. [Re: HogSnatch26]
Sneaky Online   content
The "Grouch"

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 17422
Loc: Winters
Most does donít get bread. Theyíll eat a lot of corn, though. Just what I heard from someone well educated.
_________________________

Top
#6976063 - 11/29/17 07:13 AM Re: Management Question that I DOUBT I can get a good answer .. [Re: HogSnatch26]
Pitchfork Predator Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 01/25/13
Posts: 12982
Loc: Murphy, TX Dickens county
There are different ways to manage deer herds as you mentioned.

If your hunting where there is a good coyote population I would not endorse killing all those does. But if your in parts of Texas where there are very few you have to manage your browse line or you will exceed carrying capacity.

Where we hunt there are many coyotes so we only manage the age class structure of the herd and this has been very successful keeping a good buck to do ratio. A bout 1.5 does to 1 buck.
_________________________
Marc C. Helfrich
Retirement Planner

www.insured-wealth.com
469-323-8920

Top
#6976073 - 11/29/17 07:23 AM Re: Management Question that I DOUBT I can get a good answer .. [Re: HogSnatch26]
tlk Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 07/25/13
Posts: 2377
I agree it depends on where you hunt, the type of forbs and habitat available. 1:1 ratio is typically not a management goal - more 1:1.5 or 2.

I always relate it to managing a lake or pond. I bought a property years back that had an 8 acre pond on it that had not been fished or managed. The result was many stunted bass. I immediately began aggressively removing bass of a certain size range. Why? Because there was only so much food available and there was not enough food available for that many bass in that sized pond. Over time I began seeing my bass grow bigger and much healthier. The same goes for deer. (by the way I would not count corn as "food" for deer - it like candy to them and has little nutritional value.

The ranch I have been on for the past ten years implements an aggressive doe/cull/management culling process - the numbers we take every year vary based on fawn survival and habitat conditions. The results for us have been awesome.
_________________________
You can't fix stupid

Top
#6976086 - 11/29/17 07:37 AM Re: Management Question that I DOUBT I can get a good answer .. [Re: HogSnatch26]
Chuckw Online   content
Woodsman

Registered: 11/05/14
Posts: 208
Loc: tx panhandle
it ashtonishes me how many "well educated" peeple have such pour grahmer! seriously though, i would expect someone with "management experience" to know that corn is not considered a food source for deer nor is grass!

Top
#6976110 - 11/29/17 07:54 AM Re: Management Question that I DOUBT I can get a good answer .. [Re: HogSnatch26]
Smokey Bear Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 05/11/17
Posts: 329
Loc: Texas
As educated as you may be, you are mistaken in some of your ideas. Deer are not really grass eaters and corn like acorns is only seasonal and high in starch, but provides very little other nutritional value. Deer are browsers and require 6-12 pounds of browse per day depending on the size of the animal. Not all habitat is created equal. The carrying capacity of your habitat is determined by the amount and quality of available browse present annually. It is expressed in how many acres is needed to support a single deer throughout a year. Ideally a well balanced herd, slightly below carrying capacity gives you the best shot at a healthy and genetically diverse population. Diversity is key in resistance to adversity. Ultimately the guy with his finger on the trigger is making the final management decisions. So make your call and own the results.
_________________________
Smokey Bear---Lone Star State.

Top
#6976135 - 11/29/17 08:17 AM Re: Management Question that I DOUBT I can get a good answer .. [Re: Sneaky]
Erathkid Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 15708
Loc: Dollas,Taxes Bluff Dale Tx
Originally Posted By: Sneaky
Most does donít get bread. Theyíll eat a lot of corn, though. Just what I heard from someone well educated.
Sneaky, Sneaky banana.....Darn near every deer I see on our place is a buck. I've seen 14 bucks out of my new stand and 3 doe. SapperTitan and I hunted my neighbors place evening before last and saw 14 deer on a coastal field. 1 buck in the bunch. Every place is different. Don't go shooting doe until you know what your ratios are. If you're way below CC let the herd expand.


Edited by Erathkid (11/29/17 08:26 AM)
_________________________
Life is too short, as is. Don't chance it.
Don't text and drive.

Top
#6976138 - 11/29/17 08:18 AM Re: Management Question that I DOUBT I can get a good answer .. [Re: HogSnatch26]
QuitShootinYoungBucks Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/01/12
Posts: 8116
Loc: Lubbock, TX
Better to keep your yap shut and be thought a fool than to open it and confirm the fact.
_________________________

Top
#6976142 - 11/29/17 08:21 AM Re: Management Question that I DOUBT I can get a good answer .. [Re: HogSnatch26]
Texas buckeye Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 11/22/11
Posts: 3571
Loc: Keller
One thing to remember is the doe herd will help dictate how strong a buck herd you have. If there is an abundance of doe, and there's always more than meets the eye, then bucks don't have to be strong and they don't have to fight for breeding rights. Keeping the doe population in check will facilitate growing stronger bucks. If you don't care about stronger bucks, then by all means let your doe population sky rocket. But, if you are interested in stronger bigger bucks, then manage the does with the bucks.

Top
#6976161 - 11/29/17 08:28 AM Re: Management Question that I DOUBT I can get a good answer .. [Re: HogSnatch26]
Erathkid Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 15708
Loc: Dollas,Taxes Bluff Dale Tx
A guy that used to own property next to ours but recently sold, would come out from east Texas and declare that we need to kill a bunch of doe. Without spending any time doing census, cameras, etc. Claims he read it somewhere. Im on the land 300 days a year. I KNOW whats out here. And we darn sure dont need to kill doe. 2 miles away, my neighbor could take doe and it wouldn't hurt a thing.


Edited by Erathkid (11/29/17 08:30 AM)
_________________________
Life is too short, as is. Don't chance it.
Don't text and drive.

Top
#6976211 - 11/29/17 09:00 AM Re: Management Question that I DOUBT I can get a good answer .. [Re: HogSnatch26]
hook_n_line Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 01/20/12
Posts: 4705
We take out the old dry does we also take out the weak does (the ones that can't keep fawns alive). We try to balance the age where we have 4 year old does and less. At the end of her 4th season a doe can be educated enough to blow your hunt. Also bringing the buck to doe ratio to 1 buck to 1.5 or 2 does brings more bucks out in the open during the rut. Less does = more competition among bucks causing even the wariest of bucks to get out in the open. If a doe is bred by a good buck and she is weak the fawn could go either way so we try to keep the best does and manage both bucks and does before the rut. On the AR county place, youth season takes care of that unless someone sees a really nice management buck and wants to take it with archery equipment. I generally get my meat deer in archery season and hope the big guys come out after the rut and aren't all busted up but if they are they get another year unless they have lessened from the previous year. Genetics, supplemental feed, water and cover all help the herd but if you want to see more bucks chasing, reduce your doe and predator populations.
_________________________
Sometimes it's hard being me! But somebody has to do it.

Top
#6976217 - 11/29/17 09:09 AM Re: Management Question that I DOUBT I can get a good answer .. [Re: HogSnatch26]
BOBO the Clown Online   content
decoy

Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 42874
Loc: Metroplex
1:1 was a past thought, premise was 1st population control, 2nd balanced age class segments, 3rd biggest and most dominate bucks will do majority of breeding(false thought). In the end works great for population control, but most likely will ends up in higher natural buck mortality and more broken antlers. Vast majority of ranches donít have the tag or hunter resources to get there. With that said it helps takes focus off solely buck harvest, like hunters only want to shot bucks smile

Farming is supplemental not part of what should be considered part of carrying capacity. Donít think of winter wheat and summer corn a prime annual food sources, itís not.

Does dominate feeders when young bucks arenít there.

Does carrying or lack of carrying fawns is more nutritional related. Twins tends to be a correlation of nutrition and age.

Your neighbor killing 60 does doesnít effect you as much as you think. It will some what reduce the the number of yearling bucks you see(dispersal), thatís it. If any thing they are doing you a favor. Very few places in TX that couldnt use a good doe reduction. If your neighbor has the ability to shoot 60 does, then you both probably have more then you think.



Top
#6976218 - 11/29/17 09:09 AM Re: Management Question that I DOUBT I can get a good answer .. [Re: Erathkid]
redchevy Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 26510
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Erathkid
A guy that used to own property next to ours but recently sold, would come out from east Texas and declare that we need to kill a bunch of doe. Without spending any time doing census, cameras, etc. Claims he read it somewhere. Im on the land 300 days a year. I KNOW whats out here. And we darn sure dont need to kill doe. 2 miles away, my neighbor could take doe and it wouldn't hurt a thing.


Ive been around here for a while and seems like you have always been of the stance to not shoot does. That is fine, I don't know your place not arguing that fact, but do you think there is something wrong with your set up that the does/deer in general have not populated enough to need to shoot them in this time?

Our property was incredibly overhunted when we took it over we didn't shoot deer for 2 years. At year 3 it was time to shoot and from year 4 on we have had too many deer in general both bucks and does. What do you think holds your deer back from making a population come back?
_________________________
It's hell eatin em live

Top
#6976258 - 11/29/17 09:33 AM Re: Management Question that I DOUBT I can get a good answer .. [Re: Erathkid]
KingwoodCat Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 349
Loc: Broaddus TX
Originally Posted By: Erathkid
Originally Posted By: Sneaky
Most does donít get bread. Theyíll eat a lot of corn, though. Just what I heard from someone well educated.
Sneaky, Sneaky banana.....Darn near every deer I see on our place is a buck. I've seen 14 bucks out of my new stand and 3 doe. SapperTitan and I hunted my neighbors place evening before last and saw 14 deer on a coastal field. 1 buck in the bunch. Every place is different. Don't go shooting doe until you know what your ratios are. If you're way below CC let the herd expand.


I hunted near George West Texas this week and based on what I saw, that area must have a 15-1 doe-buck ratio. Iím not sure how you can ďmanageĒ low fence ranches either. Coyotes and bobcat probably get a few, but the deer and turkeys are doing well.
_________________________
The Federal Government cannot give anything to anyone, that it has not first taken from someone else.

Top
#6976261 - 11/29/17 09:35 AM Re: Management Question that I DOUBT I can get a good answer .. [Re: HogSnatch26]
redchevy Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 26510
Loc: Texas
You cant manicure lf herd like you can on a HF, but you can surely impact your ratios.
_________________________
It's hell eatin em live

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >



© 2004-2016 OUTDOOR SITES NETWORK all rights reserved USA and Worldwide