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Re: Will Antler Restriction Change Deer Genetics?? [Re: C&H OutDoors] #6962068 11/16/17 02:00 AM
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The reason antler restrictions are a thing is because people in texas have become more trophy minded than they use to be. Horns not meat are the most important thing for hunters in this generation. It used to be opposite.

Re: Will Antler Restriction Change Deer Genetics?? [Re: C&H OutDoors] #6962080 11/16/17 02:07 AM
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My experience is solely based on hunting my 308ac lease in an AR restricted county. We have property(129ac) hunted to the NW of our place, all the remaining 2800ac surrounding us is not hunted and farmed. Over the last 3 years, the bucks haven't gotten noticeably wider but have gained substantial mass and number of tines. Out of our 7, 4-5yo bucks that did't meet antler restriction at 2yo, only 1 has meet it and is pushing the envelope. yet all 7 have gained 50-90inches in mass, 4-9" in height and on avg 4-6 more tines, some went from 8s-12s with drop tines and some grew stickers off their g2 and g3s. I haven't done any research of the reasoning behind the AR, but for our place it has only increased the age of the bucks, with very few moving past 13" if not there by age 2. We do however make it a point to never cull a doe that drops twins unless she is age 6 and above. there are a few does with distinguishing marks that we have on intention to kill, unless they are injured or stop dropping twins.

Re: Will Antler Restriction Change Deer Genetics?? [Re: tailchaser93] #6962086 11/16/17 02:10 AM
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Originally Posted By: tailchaser93
Age will never be a requirement by the state because they cannot educate everybody that hunts in all areas of the state enough to feel confident even half the hunters can properly age a deer correctly.


Never is a very long time, however your point is well taken.

A program that grants hunters greater harvest guidelines after completing additional training might be a possible solution.


"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
Re: Will Antler Restriction Change Deer Genetics?? [Re: cxjcherokec] #6962092 11/16/17 02:14 AM
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Originally Posted By: cxjcherokec
My experience is solely based on hunting my 308ac lease in an AR restricted county. We have property(129ac) hunted to the NW of our place, all the remaining 2800ac surrounding us is not hunted and farmed. Over the last 3 years, the bucks haven't gotten noticeably wider but have gained substantial mass and number of tines. Out of our 7, 4-5yo bucks that did't meet antler restriction at 2yo, only 1 has meet it and is pushing the envelope. yet all 7 have gained 50-90inches in mass, 4-9" in height and on avg 4-6 more tines, some went from 8s-12s with drop tines and some grew stickers off their g2 and g3s. I haven't done any research of the reasoning behind the AR, but for our place it has only increased the age of the bucks, with very few moving past 13" if not there by age 2. We do however make it a point to never cull a doe that drops twins unless she is age 6 and above. there are a few does with distinguishing marks that we have on intention to kill, unless they are injured or stop dropping twins.


Yes, there's no question that AR's have made it more obvious that not every deer is destined to grow a wide rack. Before AR's, I suspect most hunters were not as likely to believe that.


"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
Re: Will Antler Restriction Change Deer Genetics?? [Re: tailchaser93] #6962109 11/16/17 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted By: tailchaser93
The reason antler restrictions are a thing is because people in texas have become more trophy minded than they use to be. Horns not meat are the most important thing for hunters in this generation. It used to be opposite.

True. Many settlers kept coming west because game had been depleted in the east. It is interesting to see old photos of deer from a hunt, they are nothing special. It seems that now days the obsession with bigger deer has led to hunters trying to make the deer into something they have never been. Just reading on here for a day and you will see debates over age, management/cull, trophy or let it have another year. It is a different hunting world than it was back it the early 1800s.


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Re: Will Antler Restriction Change Deer Genetics?? [Re: C&H OutDoors] #6962517 11/16/17 02:23 PM
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If we still hunted to feed our families I think what we shot would look little different, blame it on commercialized agriculture and HEB lol.

I hunted in a few AR counties for a few years. There was literally nothing with horns that was safe. I think AR's are great, it makes people leave a little for next year.


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Re: Will Antler Restriction Change Deer Genetics?? [Re: txshntr] #6962580 11/16/17 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted By: txshntr
The genetics of the overall herd will still be there. What you see in the older narrow bucks is a result of what has been allowed to reach maturity and is not a pure example of the genetics of the area.

For example, out West there are ranches that are corporate leases and are more or less “day leased” to clients. These ranches get topped out, so all the mature deer are very weak. Basically, the better deer are shot at 3-4yo. The genetics to produce a higher top end is still there, but it would take a few years to allow that trait to become prevalent again.

IMO, it is virtually impossible to “change the genetics” of a LF herd. Shooting simply allows you to decide which deer reach their max potential by reaching full maturity.
x2

Re: Will Antler Restriction Change Deer Genetics?? [Re: Texas Dan] #6962592 11/16/17 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: Texas Dan
Originally Posted By: tailchaser93
Age will never be a requirement by the state because they cannot educate everybody that hunts in all areas of the state enough to feel confident even half the hunters can properly age a deer correctly.


Never is a very long time, however your point is well taken.

A program that grants hunters greater harvest guidelines after completing additional training might be a possible solution.



There are plenty of studies that show experts on aging deer have horrible accuracy. Heck judging dead deer by jawbones still has a great deal of inaccuracy.

At best we are making educated decisions. Certainly a better tool than indescriminate shooting, but not accurate enough to pass laws on.

It is also why I will never "argue" age with anyone. No one really KNOWS unless it has an ear tag and was raised from a fawn.

Last edited by sprigsss; 11/16/17 03:11 PM.
Re: Will Antler Restriction Change Deer Genetics?? [Re: sig226fan (Rguns.com)] #6962900 11/16/17 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: sig226fan (Rguns.com)

. . . .Plainly, have you ever seen a rancher slaughter/eat his best herd bulls each year, leave the weaker, smaller bulls, and expect the herd to get better or healthier?

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ THIS ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
best most sensible post yet. . .

also, many assume that a buck left to walk will be there year after year.
they don't take into account those killed by predators, road kill, poachers,
parasites, bucks fighting, drownings, diseases, etc. etc.
jmho, i'd say a deer that had a 50% chance at survival every year was doing good.

Re: Will Antler Restriction Change Deer Genetics?? [Re: C&H OutDoors] #6962922 11/16/17 07:27 PM
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Antler restrictions aren't perfect but are much better than what we had in those areas. I have friends/relatives that are seeing a LOT more 4+ year old bucks.

I think the main goal was to get some age structure in some of those herds and it is definitely helping.

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