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#6958594 - 11/13/17 01:57 PM Do ARs work???
BassBuster1 Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 10/09/06
Posts: 163
Loc: Denton
We hunt some family property in Denton County. It is a mix of ag and creek bottoms and pretty awesome habitat if you ask me. Lots of pecans and oaks and winter wheat here shortly. Anyway we seem to have quite a few of what we are calling wonky bucks. Young bucks with a little beam and some nubs one side but a very messed up bunch of little forks on the other. Is this normal for year old deer? Here is why I ask about ARs, the legal bucks are being shot and these messed up little guys are living because of branched or in some cases barely branched antlers. We are trying to shoot legal management deer when we can but at least one younger 10 has been shot. Seems to me the ARs are working exactly the opposite as they should on our place. Seems to me we should be shooting and eating all of these wonky bucks and getting those out of the gene pool so the few nice typical 10s we have out there will live and breed the does. I think we are going to end up perpetuating the bad genes and eating the good ones partly because of the law. We don't really have a huge doe population so we are trying to leave them alone for a while until we get closer to carrying capacity for the property. Anyway thoughts as to how to manage this situation?

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#6958596 - 11/13/17 01:59 PM Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: BassBuster1]
fouzman Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/09/10
Posts: 1584
Loc: Houston, TX
Statistics would indicate the ARs are working.

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#6958611 - 11/13/17 02:07 PM Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: BassBuster1]
BassBuster1 Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 10/09/06
Posts: 163
Loc: Denton
I have read many post over the years here and on the fishing side from you. I respect your opinion, what would you suggest about our messed up gene? Are there some land owner permits we can get that will allow us to shoot those weird deer or do we have to let them go and see them year after year until they hopefully get big enough to make ARs?

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#6958619 - 11/13/17 02:14 PM Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: BassBuster1]
Sneaky Online   content
The "Grouch"

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 17295
Loc: Winters
It s an imperfect system, and thereís plenty of arguments against them, but I think itís pretty clear that they have been effective concerning their intended goal.
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#6958624 - 11/13/17 02:19 PM Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: BassBuster1]
fouzman Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/09/10
Posts: 1584
Loc: Houston, TX
Originally Posted By: BassBuster1
I have read many post over the years here and on the fishing side from you. I respect your opinion, what would you suggest about our messed up gene? Are there some land owner permits we can get that will allow us to shoot those weird deer or do we have to let them go and see them year after year until they hopefully get big enough to make ARs?


I do not know the answer to land owner permits to remove undesired genetics, as I have not hunted in an AR county. You may want to look up your local Game Warden or TPWD Technical Guidance Biologist for that answer. Good luck, I'd be frustrated too at having to let crummy genetics perpetuate on our place.

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#6958633 - 11/13/17 02:25 PM Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: BassBuster1]
SmallTownHunter Offline
Tracker

Registered: 12/15/08
Posts: 517
Loc: Palo Pinto County,Tx


I've had this buck on cam 3 years in a row with absolutely no growth. I just hope he hasn't got to spread his genes around. IMO he is the perfect example of why AR's work most of the time but not on every place. I am for AR's but I really wish I could cull him out of the herd.

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#6958639 - 11/13/17 02:29 PM Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: Sneaky]
BassBuster1 Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 10/09/06
Posts: 163
Loc: Denton
Originally Posted By: Sneaky
It s an imperfect system, and thereís plenty of arguments against them, but I think itís pretty clear that they have been effective concerning their intended goal.


I do understand the intention, I am a fisherman first and to me it is the same as a legal length limit. I believe in that kind of regulation so we get away from the mind set of shooting the first thing that we see with horns. We are a pretty conservation minded and future looking group just seems we need some exceptions in order to grow the kind of animals we want on and around our place. I will look into the GW/Bioligist after season and see what we can do.

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#6958642 - 11/13/17 02:32 PM Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: BassBuster1]
BassBuster1 Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 10/09/06
Posts: 163
Loc: Denton
STH that is exactly the kind of thing I am talking about. Last year I had a guy with spikes about 12" long with eye guards. Spikes too close together to shoot him and I am sure he was breeding a doe or two.

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#6958644 - 11/13/17 02:34 PM Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: BassBuster1]
jrfan Offline
Tracker

Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 929
Loc: Denton, Texas
I don't know what you're talking about. There are no deer in Denton County. Please move along.
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#6958658 - 11/13/17 02:50 PM Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: SmallTownHunter]
redchevy Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 26255
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: SmallTownHunter


I've had this buck on cam 3 years in a row with absolutely no growth. I just hope he hasn't got to spread his genes around. IMO he is the perfect example of why AR's work most of the time but not on every place. I am for AR's but I really wish I could cull him out of the herd.


I ask this every time one of these horrible narrow spread deer late night pictures is posted... have you ever seen/actually had the opportunity to shoot that deer? I never get a response, so I assume the answer is no...
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It's hell eatin em live

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#6958674 - 11/13/17 03:03 PM Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: BassBuster1]
BassBuster1 Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 10/09/06
Posts: 163
Loc: Denton
I have had the opportunity once last year and several times this year to kill some of our messed up bucks. Last chance was Saturday morning when one of our wonky bucks walked 45 yards from me upwind and never new I was there.

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#6958700 - 11/13/17 03:21 PM Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: BassBuster1]
bossbowman Offline
Tracker

Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 773
Loc: Hill county
From what I've seen YES. Talk to your deer processors in your area, they can give you the scoop on what it used to be like and what they are now getting in.

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#6958708 - 11/13/17 03:26 PM Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: Sneaky]
bossbowman Offline
Tracker

Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 773
Loc: Hill county
Originally Posted By: Sneaky
It s an imperfect system, and thereís plenty of arguments against them, but I think itís pretty clear that they have been effective concerning their intended goal.


Yes, see the story about this toad that came out of denton county this year?
https://www.facebook.com/stxha/photos/a....e=3&theater



Edited by bossbowman (11/13/17 03:26 PM)

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#6958717 - 11/13/17 03:30 PM Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: redchevy]
SmallTownHunter Offline
Tracker

Registered: 12/15/08
Posts: 517
Loc: Palo Pinto County,Tx
Originally Posted By: redchevy
Originally Posted By: SmallTownHunter


I've had this buck on cam 3 years in a row with absolutely no growth. I just hope he hasn't got to spread his genes around. IMO he is the perfect example of why AR's work most of the time but not on every place. I am for AR's but I really wish I could cull him out of the herd.


I ask this every time one of these horrible narrow spread deer late night pictures is posted... have you ever seen/actually had the opportunity to shoot that deer? I never get a response, so I assume the answer is no...




You guessed wrong, I have already seen him 3 times this year in the daylight with a rifle sitting in the stand. Didn't think it would matter if it were a day or night pic, and I didn't know 7:30 in the morning was in the middle of the night....sheesh. At least you got a response this time.


Edited by SmallTownHunter (11/13/17 03:33 PM)

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#6958727 - 11/13/17 03:39 PM Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: bossbowman]
hook_n_line Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 01/20/12
Posts: 4617
Originally Posted By: bossbowman
From what I've seen YES. Talk to your deer processors in your area, they can give you the scoop on what it used to be like and what they are now getting in.


Yes AR's are working. Talk to the local processor. My buddy took his in and the processor said all the bucks in this year had good mass and he hadn't seen any pencil deer yet. I'm happy to say there are finally some management minded people around my area now as well. We had 2 groups who shot the "wonky" bucks even if they didn't make AR. They got busted and moved on about 2 years ago. With them gone we see nicer bucks and the "wonky" first year bucks have multiple points instead of the fork horned deer we used to see. In the second year they show much improvement. Now our deer are getting old and a few "wonky" deer are starting to be impressive. It seems like we get a longer season and the kids have some quality management bucks to take. I'm patient, I see one I will take next year if he makes it and the good thing the neighbors are seeing other deer they would like to take.
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Sometimes it's hard being me! But somebody has to do it.

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