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#6916124 - 10/10/17 08:45 PM Are short tines a cullable trait?
cameron00 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 01/08/09
Posts: 8708
Loc: Texas
I donít see this discussed a lot like some of the other poor qualities in bucks, but I believe short tines are relatively damning as far as a buckís future potential. I think the reason they donít get as much flack is because you can still have a really cool looking buck with a heavy or long main beam. But it wonít score much.

Thoughts?

Iím asking in the following context:

Have a buddy with about 900 acres and he needs help taking deer every year. For whatever reason, their buck:doe ratio skews towards bucks, and their age structure is young (havenít had place long) so many times when youíre out there, youíll see 5-10 young bucks and nothing else. Itís not an AR County.

If told that the goal is to take out the poorest young bucks, would you rather cull a wider deer with short tines, or a lower spread with long tines? Assume 3-yr-olds.

We were having the discussion because my buddy was frustrated because no one was shooting anything. No one was shooting anything because we were all seeing a ton of young bucks. I shot a young 8-pt that was decently good looking, but of the 5 I had that appeared the same age, he had the shortest tines.

Thoughts?

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#6916129 - 10/10/17 08:49 PM Re: Are short tines a cullable trait? [Re: cameron00]
SapperTitan Online   content
Taking Requests

Registered: 11/17/10
Posts: 22824
Loc: Killeen/Ft Hood, TX
depends on how short. Semi short with good mass throughout I like but id say the majority of short tine bucks are potential culls
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#6916140 - 10/10/17 08:54 PM Re: Are short tines a cullable trait? [Re: cameron00]
rifleman Online   crying
Sparkly Pants

Registered: 11/19/08
Posts: 44291
Loc: Kingwood
Need to figure out what's available that's "old". If there's just a bunch of cruising yearlings out beyond their normal range, then I'm not sure what good would be done thinning them out.

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#6916159 - 10/10/17 09:04 PM Re: Are short tines a cullable trait? [Re: cameron00]
Texas buckeye Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 11/22/11
Posts: 3571
Loc: Keller
Culling is all in the eye of the beholder. As mentioned above there are so many criteria to consider when considering what a good cull deer is, that it really depends on your population as well as your taste for deer. Donít expect culling to change anything as far as genetic expression in a lf native Texas population, and really in a HF operation culling is not going to make much difference unless New genetics are introduced. But itís all in the eye of the beholder.

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#6916162 - 10/10/17 09:08 PM Re: Are short tines a cullable trait? [Re: cameron00]
cameron00 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 01/08/09
Posts: 8708
Loc: Texas
There are too many deer overall.

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#6916168 - 10/10/17 09:11 PM Re: Are short tines a cullable trait? [Re: cameron00]
cameron00 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 01/08/09
Posts: 8708
Loc: Texas
Put another way: does width or tine length have a bigger effect on score?

Forget the genetics effect and just assume the deer you donít shoot get to live to be 7.

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#6916192 - 10/10/17 09:24 PM Re: Are short tines a cullable trait? [Re: cameron00]
Texas buckeye Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 11/22/11
Posts: 3571
Loc: Keller
IF there are too many young deer, I would focus more on shooting 2yo and older with less that 8 pts or 3yo and older with less than 10 Pts. Unless the property is MLD and you get a lot of tags to use, your culling efforts will simply remove mouths from the food chain. Wonít make any significant difference in antler expression other than just improving the food available for the remaining deer.

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#6916214 - 10/10/17 09:40 PM Re: Are short tines a cullable trait? [Re: cameron00]
BooneDog Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 10/11/12
Posts: 231
Loc: Argyle,TX
We have kind of the same dilemma going on, so I am following this one. On 6 game cams on 1200 acres we have not seen a 4+ yr Old buck at all. And the cams have been out since May. The guys bow hunting already are seeing 5-6 bucks a hunt and they are all young 8ís or smaller. This is the first year on this place in between Throckmorton and Seymour.

As far as your question on scoring main beam lengthy and time length contribute the most to score.

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#6916318 - 10/11/17 01:02 AM Re: Are short tines a cullable trait? [Re: cameron00]
Txduckman Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 12210
Loc: Big D
Got to wonder if they is when the drought from 2012/2013 really starts showing up with a missing age class of bucks.

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#6916423 - 10/11/17 07:21 AM Re: Are short tines a cullable trait? [Re: cameron00]
fouzman Online   content
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/09/10
Posts: 1657
Loc: Houston, TX
Originally Posted By: cameron00
Put another way: does width or tine length have a bigger effect on score?

Forget the genetics effect and just assume the deer you donít shoot get to live to be 7.


Tine length.

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#6916429 - 10/11/17 07:28 AM Re: Are short tines a cullable trait? [Re: cameron00]
Pinky3169 Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 08/03/11
Posts: 113
Loc: Stephenville TX, & Walker Coun...
We typically take 2 year olds or older with 4 or 6 point racks, no brow tines. To start. Then we will move to 7pt racks and 8pt racks with super short brows.. Works for us.... Not for every one..

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#6916506 - 10/11/17 08:21 AM Re: Are short tines a cullable trait? [Re: cameron00]
redchevy Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 26534
Loc: Texas
Native genetics have everything including the kitchen sink in them. We have some that are narrow and tall like you say and also wide and short. It seems to me the ones that are wide and short seem to be at least for us the deer that throw a lot of points.
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#6916516 - 10/11/17 08:34 AM Re: Are short tines a cullable trait? [Re: Pinky3169]
Drogers6771 Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 10/01/17
Posts: 224
Loc: Huntsville
Originally Posted By: Pinky3169
We typically take 2 year olds or older with 4 or 6 point racks, no brow tines. To start. Then we will move to 7pt racks and 8pt racks with super short brows.. Works for us.... Not for every one..


up start at the bottom and work your way up.

As for scoring, tine and beam length contribute the most.

Pinky3169, where you at in Walker county?

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#6916578 - 10/11/17 09:17 AM Re: Are short tines a cullable trait? [Re: Txduckman]
D'hanis Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 09/28/17
Posts: 120
Originally Posted By: Txduckman
Got to wonder if they is when the drought from 2012/2013 really starts showing up with a missing age class of bucks.


Very good point

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#6917553 - 10/11/17 11:09 PM Re: Are short tines a cullable trait? [Re: D'hanis]
ckat Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 12/02/09
Posts: 1133
Loc: Lubbock Area
Originally Posted By: D'hanis
Originally Posted By: Txduckman
Got to wonder if they is when the drought from 2012/2013 really starts showing up with a missing age class of bucks.


Very good point


THIS^^^ Most folks don't fully understand the effects of the drought. A group of biologist in our area (Rolling Plains) did an in-depth study on the fawn crops of the drought and reported the findings last year. The Kliff Notes version is:

2011 Fawn Crop (6.5 year olds this year) - Near 100% mortality rate

2012 Fawn Crop (5.5 year olds this year) - Estimated 30% of normal birthing rate, but high post-birth mortality rate

2013 Fawn Crop (4.5 year olds this year) - Estimated 30% of normal birthing rate, with higher than 2012 survival rate

What does this mean? It is THE explanation for the significant "Age Gap" that we are seeing throughout the region. Lots of young bucks from 0.5-3.5 years old, a few 4.5 year olds, very few 5.5 year olds, and virtually no 6.5 year olds. Due to the tough conditions of 2011-2013, the number of bucks that are older than 6.5 is basically zero. The biologists also noted that barring no severe droughts, 2020 should be the "Magic" year where things are back to "normal."

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