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#6912361 - 10/07/17 03:54 PM Pleasant surprise
mikei Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 11/16/14
Posts: 2936
I've been a reloader for over 50 years and rarely, if ever, shoot factory fodder through any of my guns. As part of a trade a few weeks ago, a guy threw in a box of Liberty Silverado .223. 55 grain ammo. When I went out to the range today to check the zero on my deer rifles, I took my 223 bolt gun with me, and the box of Liberty ammo, just for shucks and grins. At a hundred yards, from a rest, the first 3 shots all went into one ragged hole! My chrony said the average MV was 3010, and the ES was 18. My carefully crafted hand loads don't do any better! Of course, the Liberty ammo goes from $24 to $36.95 for a box of 20, so my reloads are bit more cost effective. But I was pleasantly surprised. If you're bored and wealthy, you might want to share a box of these with one of your shooting buddies. I'm going to see if I can find some nasty feral hog and see what it thinks about this ammo. If it does good on the piggies, I might try it on one of the dog-sized does we have running around the place. I think a neck shot should take one down quickly.

Description
The Liberty Ammunition Civil Defense (same as Silverado) .223 Rem is a copper monolithic, fragmenting, hollow point, personal defense round. Designed to fragment in soft tissue, the Civil Defense .223 Rem will penetrate barriers such as automotive glass, car doors, wall board, plywood, and heavy clothing without deforming or deflecting. The Civil Defense .223 Rem is lead free and manufactured in the US.
Copper, Monolithic, Hollow-Point Fragmenting, Personal Defense Round
Weight: 55gr
Velocity: >3000 FPS
Kinetic Energy: >1100 FPE
Accuracy: 1 MOA @ 300 M
Rounds: 20 per box


Edited by mikei (10/08/17 07:17 AM)

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#6912814 - 10/08/17 09:22 AM Re: Pleasant surprise [Re: mikei]
Buzzsaw Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 12698
Loc: Frisco, Texas
Thanks Mike for the heads up up
_________________________
"I ain't here for a long time, I'm here for a good time"
King George Strait



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#6912847 - 10/08/17 09:55 AM Re: Pleasant surprise [Re: mikei]
spg Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/11/13
Posts: 1537
Good to know, loading .223 almost requires tweezers, not my favorite

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#6912905 - 10/08/17 11:26 AM Re: Pleasant surprise [Re: mikei]
patriot07 Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 2371
Loc: Royse City, TX
Nice!

I found that Hornady 68 BTHP Match factory ammo shoots lights out in both 223s I've owned, and both with low ES as well (better than my hand loads with CFE223 or Varget). I was equally as surprised as you are.

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#6912964 - 10/08/17 12:54 PM Re: Pleasant surprise [Re: mikei]
mikei Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 11/16/14
Posts: 2936
This morning I went back out and shot a 5 shot group just to make sure I wasn't just having a particularly "good day at the range," and sure enough, my bolt gun jammed all 5 shots in on top of one another at 100 yards. Same MV and ES. Think I'll be running a few through my AR and will let you all know what my results are. Also, I went ahead and ordered 2 more boxes of the ammo from Bud's Gun Shop and paid $23.36 per box of 20. Ain't at the reload price point, but a heck of a lot better than the $36/box price I first found when I searched the i'net!

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#6915576 - 10/10/17 11:10 AM Re: Pleasant surprise [Re: mikei]
garyrapp55 Offline
Tracker

Registered: 12/26/11
Posts: 661
Loc: Ft. Worth
Just for kicks I looked on there site. Man they are proud. Anyway, I only looked at the 308 mono and states 1 MOA@ 500yds. I hear/read a lot where folks say 1 MOA @ 100 or 1 MOA @ 600. I'm not an expert but isn't the distance irrelevant? 1 MOA at 1 yard is the same accuracy as 1 MOA at 1,000, correct?

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#6915862 - 10/10/17 04:14 PM Re: Pleasant surprise [Re: garyrapp55]
TackDriver Offline
Tracker

Registered: 05/02/14
Posts: 840
Originally Posted By: garyrapp55
Just for kicks I looked on there site. Man they are proud. Anyway, I only looked at the 308 mono and states 1 MOA@ 500yds. I hear/read a lot where folks say 1 MOA @ 100 or 1 MOA @ 600. I'm not an expert but isn't the distance irrelevant? 1 MOA at 1 yard is the same accuracy as 1 MOA at 1,000, correct?


Here are links that may help you understand it better.
http://www.westernshooter.com/2009/10/using-and-understanding-minute-of-angle.html
https://www.nssf.org/shooting/minute-angle-moa/

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#6915936 - 10/10/17 05:14 PM Re: Pleasant surprise [Re: TackDriver]
garyrapp55 Offline
Tracker

Registered: 12/26/11
Posts: 661
Loc: Ft. Worth
Originally Posted By: TackDriver
Originally Posted By: garyrapp55
Just for kicks I looked on there site. Man they are proud. Anyway, I only looked at the 308 mono and states 1 MOA@ 500yds. I hear/read a lot where folks say 1 MOA @ 100 or 1 MOA @ 600. I'm not an expert but isn't the distance irrelevant? 1 MOA at 1 yard is the same accuracy as 1 MOA at 1,000, correct?


Here are links that may help you understand it better.
http://www.westernshooter.com/2009/10/using-and-understanding-minute-of-angle.html
https://www.nssf.org/shooting/minute-angle-moa/

I have seen the one from NSSF before so I'll assume the answer to the question is yes, the distance is irrelevant. 1 MOA is 1 MOA regardless of distance. Roughly 1 inch at 100 and 10 at 1000. So if I say my rifle and I shoot 2 MOA at 200, we still shoot 2 MOA at all other distances. No?

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#6916014 - 10/10/17 06:42 PM Re: Pleasant surprise [Re: garyrapp55]
RiverRider Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 7975
Loc: Wise Co.
Originally Posted By: garyrapp55
1 MOA is 1 MOA regardless of distance. Roughly 1 inch at 100 and 10 at 1000. So if I say my rifle and I shoot 2 MOA at 200, we still shoot 2 MOA at all other distances. No?



Well...in theory, maybe. It's not something you can rely on and just expect to happen, though. Lots of things can screw it up.
_________________________


I'm here to give and receive knowledge, not affirmation or adoration. If you don't like it, mierda dura. Intellectual honesty is not for fragile egos.

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#6916095 - 10/10/17 08:15 PM Re: Pleasant surprise [Re: garyrapp55]
mikei Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 11/16/14
Posts: 2936
Originally Posted By: garyrapp55
Originally Posted By: TackDriver
Originally Posted By: garyrapp55
Just for kicks I looked on there site. Man they are proud. Anyway, I only looked at the 308 mono and states 1 MOA@ 500yds. I hear/read a lot where folks say 1 MOA @ 100 or 1 MOA @ 600. I'm not an expert but isn't the distance irrelevant? 1 MOA at 1 yard is the same accuracy as 1 MOA at 1,000, correct?


Here are links that may help you understand it better.
http://www.westernshooter.com/2009/10/using-and-understanding-minute-of-angle.html
https://www.nssf.org/shooting/minute-angle-moa/

I have seen the one from NSSF before so I'll assume the answer to the question is yes, the distance is irrelevant. 1 MOA is 1 MOA regardless of distance. Roughly 1 inch at 100 and 10 at 1000. So if I say my rifle and I shoot 2 MOA at 200, we still shoot 2 MOA at all other distances. No?


If you shoot 1 MOA at 100 yards, that's a one inch group (roughly). At 200 yards that turns into a 2 inch group; at 300 yards, it's a 3 inch group, and on and on. The confounding factors are that shooting an MOA group at 100 yards is relatively easy, since you have fewer variables working on your bullet, your trigger discipline, the wind, the mirage, the humidity, the ambient temperature and other things. Just because your rifle and you can shoot a 1 inch group at 100 yards does NOT mean that the same combination can or will shoot a 5 inch group at 500 yards! The only way you can find out if you can shoot a certain size group at a given range is get out there and shoot, and shoot and shoot. Lots of trigger time required, the further out you go.

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