Hwy_Man. I own an old dog that will find a poorly shot deer. I also lease out around 140,000 acres to hunters in Texas. The old dog and me have found more than our share of deer that hunters can't find. What I have seen is marksmanship is the main factor. Most typical scenario is a guy that has a history of losing deer because he can't shoot for beans. The answer he comes up with (instead of mastering his weapon) is a bigger gun to knock a bigger hole. The recoil makes him twitchy, and the problem gets worse. Most often visiting with the guy about improving his skill level is a monumental waste of time.
Here we go with profiling, but the millenial generation, and their culture of instant gratification, are the most egregious in my experience.

I've been shooting my Rem 700 BDL .30-06 for 23 years.It's time for a new gun.Im on the fence between .270 and 7 Mag.I hunt in East Texas.

Could split the difference, if you're a hand-loader.

.284 Winchester
.280 Rem
.280 Rem A.I.

Same bolt face and parent case size as the .270 but with a 7mm bullet. All of those are fantastic cartridges.

I buy my guns from Carter's Country in Houston,and I don't recall ever seeing a .280 available, and also I haven't seen any .280 Ammo on the shelf.

I was 20 years old before I saw my first .280 Remington


It wasn't a popular round when I was growing up....the only people I know now that use it are long range guys and one who had a rifles inc. in .280


Right now the fad seems to be in .308's and 6.5's

I was never fond of the only 7mm Rem Mag I owned. I simply did not like the feel of it as I shot it. A lot of punch/perceived recoil to me. It was a very popular caliber back in the 80s/90s but it seems the .300 Win Mag has eclipsed it since then as the preferred mid-weight rifle.

I have always wanted a .280 but have never owned or even shot one.

.300 Win Mag is way too much gun for Whitetail Deer

No such thing.

A lot of people in our camps shot them back in the 90's. Then in the 2000's it was the .300 wsm

Haven't seen much of either in camps the last 5 years

I have owned both the 280 Remington and the 7MM Express as the 280 was renamed for a short period of time. I now have a Steyr in 280 which I have used on Elk the last few years and with new powders it's right on the heels of the 7 Mag. I run 175's 2880fps

Years before we met my wife won a rifle in a raffle. It’s a Browning A-Bolt in 7mm Rem Mag. She’s killed everything drt that she’s shot with the rifle. I just recently bought her a Ruger American Predator in 6.5 Creedmoor. She’s fine with either one.

Nowhere in my post did I say it was the fault of the cartridge. It is indeed poor marksmanship. The trouble with the big magnums is that most folks can't or won't take the time to become proficient with them due to the beating and the muzzle blast. This results in poor shots and wounded game.

fouzman that's sure the rap on anything much larger than a .270/.30-06.

I'm not sure I buy it. A 7mm Mag or a .300 Win Mag is not really a "big magnum". A .300 RUM, .300 Weatherby, .338 Win Mag, .375 H&H, 416 Rem Mag, etc. is a big magnum. My belief is that most guys who don't hunt much/have much experience never learned to shoot in the first place and just think that "bigger is better" and will make up for their shortcomings. I can't prove it but IMO most of them would wound a lot of game even with a .308.

Ill debate that a little, a 300 win mag and 300 wby mag are nearly identical. Sure one has a little more case capacity but in the big scheme of things you not going to do something with one that you wouldn't with the other.

I would consider any of them big magnums, lots of case capacity and big bullets, it has been said, observed, and I consider it proven that 7 rem mag and up produce more recoil than the average joe is comfortable shooting and they wont take the time to learn to shoot it well.

.300 Wby Mag has about 500 more ft. lbs. of energy and at least 20% more recoil. That's just the numbers. Wby magnums have a lot more perceived recoil. Shooting a .300 Wby magnum is an entirely different experience than shooting a .300 Win Mag.

I agree with you about their compared utility. I have zero use for a .300 Wby. I would rather shoot my .338 Win mag if I want to move up.

Again, my belief is guys who "won't take time" to shoot a mid magnum well never "took time" to shoot their .270 well either.

I just don't believe there are a bunch of good shooters with their .30-06 who all of a sudden turn into sprayers just because they move up to a .300 Win Mag or 7mm Rem Mag.

YMMV.

I didn't accuse you of anything.

We are saying exactly the same thing.

.30-06's kick too. Personally I dislike that round.

I have a 7mm mag. I can shoot it well but I don't like to. I bought it to kill bigger animals than I feel comfortable shooting with a .270.

It has been my expert thru guiding dozens of hunters through the years is the ones who shoot magnums well shoot everything well.

Guys that shoot poorly with .30-06's and 7mm mags shoot poorly with .243's and .270's.

Interesting thread for sitting around the campfire...So a 300 WMg is too much for WTails AT WHAT DISTANCE? A 243 with VT bullets is too much for WTails at 50 yards and not enough gun at 400 yards.

IMO Everything is a compromise for a given distance bracket window of perfomance based on distance from Muzzle to Impact. I ran a 300wmg for lots of years as "long range" companion to a 270 and never blew up a WTail as bad as I did with a 270 that I'd done a poor job of bullet placement with...but then I never shot at a WTail with the Winnie at under 250 yards either where the same bullet used in a 30'06 was travelling at about the same speed as the '06 was at 75 yards & usually at past 300+ yards where the 270's MV was dropping off....I also used the same bullet design in both calibers most of the time.

I 've shot a few 7Rmg's over the years - just bought one last month to download into 280 MV's when I couldn't find a SS 280 for anywhere close to the same $'s. I never saw the advantage in owning a 7Rmg for the under 300 yard shots on Texas sized critters, where 90% of my deer have been killed, over the 270's lack of recoil and apprx same on game bullet performance in the same bullet design. Really didn't like the 7Rmgs faster shoulder slap aka initial recoil pulse, but could handle the 300Wmgs heavier punch recoil in those days for 60-100 rounds off the bench out of a +/-200 round day at the range.

Bullet Speed (MV's & Impact Speeds) are only One component in getting your knife bloody and obviusly there is a place & need for a variety of calibers and bullet designs....

I agree totally with the statement that shooters who can shoot thier favorite caliber accurately at will...can shoot pretty much any caliber at least decently, and some calibers better than others ...and guys who will not learn to shoot anything accurately at will, can't shoot anything for S$%# no matter how big or how small the caliber. It's ALWAYS been more about the Indian than it is about the bow or the arrow.

I'd love to see Texas impose a mandatory accuracy Test to qaulify for a Hunting License...some of us would pass with a that was fun giggle..and some of us would take up tennis or golf. Seen it done in Europe and made a believer out of me.
Ron

People don't need to be concerned with overkill near as much as they do underkill

Practice, Practice, and Practice until you are comfortable with the gun. Bullet placement is the key to saving your meat, or making hamburger on the hoof.

Nope... my whitetail gun is a 7 Mag... i havent damaged too much meat and shot plenty of deer..

I decided on the .270 Win. Mainly because they didn't have 7 Mag available in the gun (Weatherby Vanguard Sporter)I bought,and looking at the ammo between .270 and .30-06 it wasn't much difference,and also where I hunt and the size Deer that I'm seeing it wasn't a need for the 7 Mag.

I guide a lot of white tail hunters. By far the biggest problem is flinching from magnums. We will get hunters in that have a new .300 Weatherby, .300 Win Mag, 7MM Rem Mag, .300 WSM, etc... in a light weight hunting rig. Muzzle blast and recoil really take their toll on average hunters. Not people who read this forum, but busy executives and novice hunters who utilize a ranch with guides. If one of my hunters fits the above scenario, we will make sure no shell is in the chamber, and dry fire on every deer that we see. We will do this over and over working on "shot placement". It works wonders on improving the shot. It is my opinion that it does not take much to kill a white tail deer. A .243, 7mm/08, .257 Bob, work great. I have culled a lot of animals with my .223 using Hornady 55 grain spire points. A buck/doe is not that thick. Place a 55 grainer behind the shoulder and it will wreck the lungs every time. I would not shoot thru the shoulders or frontal/rear shots with a .223. I have shot red stag in Patagonia out to 500 yards with a lowly .308 Win and 150 grain SST. Lethal and complete penetration at that range. I have also seen more problems with Barnes, GMX and some bonded bullets that are just too tough for white tail. I am very happy when a hunter shows up with a standard caliber and a green box of Rem CoreLokts or Fed blue box cup/core.

You will be well served with it

I got one in 97' and never looked back.

I have other calibers now but it's one of the best 400 lbs and under cartridges