Isn't that argument a little silly? That's like saying "Compare the car accident rate of people who drive vs. people who don't".

Buy a gun with a safety.

I can almost guarantee the risk of you getting robbed is much, much higher at the local Wal-Mart than most anywhere else you will go. Saying there are "basically zero shootings in most of the places I go" is setting yourself up for a bad day. It can happen anytime, anywhere, to anyone.

ABC= Always Be Carrying

Agreed, but that tactic isn't without risk is all I'm saying. That risk is acceptable to some folks, and that's fine. It's not to me.

I'm not going to shoot anyone if all they want is my wallet. The legal fees will cost me more than the wallet will.

Printing can be an issue sometimes.

Just curious Doc. Do you carry at the dental office?

Disregard my previous posts. I want what Nogalus has. I'll carry one in the chamber with knife open.

Your 1911's have two safeties. If they are well built and in good working order, an unintended discharge is not going to happen. 9 shots (8+1) should be enough for the vast majority of likely scenarios a civilian will encounter in a self-defense scenario. Is there a trade off, yes, but there are others factors balancing pro and con too.

If you only carry when you are going to the "bad" part of town, you will be destroyed in a courtroom. Of all the internet B.S. thrown around, this issue is never discussed and perhaps the one that is most likely to cause problems.

Compare these two statements in front of a jury.

"So, normally you don't carry your pistol with you?

But today, you decided that you were going to need a pistol.

Two hours later you shot Mr. Deadman."

That is looking a whole lot like premeditated killing, which equals murder.

In contrast, what I was taught, and teach, for this reason among several -

"I carry 24/7/365 everywhere that it is legal. The only time I do not carry is when I know I will be going somewhere that it is prohibited. On those days, I leave it at home locked in the safe, because I do not want some criminal to steal it from my car and hurt someone with it."

Seriously, which one of those two more likely will be judged in your favor by a community of your peers?

There are plenty of other reasons to carry all of the time.

You really do not know when or where the need will arise. The only time I ever had to draw on someone was at the drive through window of a taco place in the middle of the day, when a man and woman decided they were going to carjack me. The biggest time delay was recognizing the reality of what was happening. It is like falling from a ladder. Everything seems to go in slow motion despite it lasting a split second. The reality of having draw fast and be on target can be the difference of who wins the draw and has control of the confrontation. I was a split second ahead and had a 1911 cocked and locked pointed at the woman's face as her hand was still low. Game over - she turned and ran along with the man and I did not have to fire thankfully. Despite all of the Billy Badasses on the internet, I have zero desire, none, to want to have to shoot someone. There are the legal problems for sure, but more importantly, I don't want to take a person's life, even some lowlife that the world might never miss. That is just my internal view of it. Taking life is not done lightly, and I feel the same even when taking the life of feral pigs. I really do not like discussing that encounter and did not until recently, when I thought it might be helpful to others. Just thinking about it still makes me shake and my hair stand up.

Take aways -

1. You really do not know when or where the need to use force will occur. If you do, then don't go there in the first place.

2. The bad guys may not look like bad guys - and they may not even be a guy. I drew on a petite/scrawny white woman wearing a pink hoody. The boyfriend had stepped in front of my truck, while she came up to the driver window which was down (broken out actually). Good tactic by the team, she was less likely to raise suspicion.

3. The time difference between winning and losing can be fractions of a second. A person will not rise to the occasion, but sink to the level of their training. If one is not training with some regularity, they really should not be carrying. That is just my opinion.

4. If you are afraid of your pistol, get rid of it and find one that you are absolutely confident and comfortable carrying, handling and shooting, along with a high quality sturdy holster that will retain the pistol if you end up rolling around on the ground. There is no right or wrong answer on what to carry, it will vary for each person and there are pros and cons to almost every design. I settled on a high end 1911, a Les Baer SRP, for one simple reason after having gone through many others. I feel comfortable that I can control my shots and put them where intended, when needed. It will work when it needs to work. It conceals well and it is comfortable to carry. Now when it is on, I do not even notice it. When I have to leave it home, everything feels out of balance. It takes time to get to that point, but start carrying all day everyday and things will become more comfortable, or keep trying different pistol and holster combinations. It takes a while for the right combo to fall into place.

If you think I read your long essay contest entry, you'd be wrong. You get 2 paragraphs max or I just skip along.

I did read the first sentence. I don't carry my 1911. I have no idea how anyone carries one concealed, and I think open carry just makes you the first target.

Ok, here is simple advice especially just for you.

Have the number of a good criminal defense lawyer on your speed dial and let's hope you never need it.

What? How do you think they will force you to take your wallet? You think a perp is going to come up with a smile on his face and happily say I want your wallet? And you kindly give it to the perp, and the deal is done? Seriously? Hell no, he's going to demand it and probably with a weapon. He may decide he wants to kill you after you comply and give him your wallet.

And I read every word of Jeff's, post and some parts twice. Why? He's an attorney that knows what's he's talking about.

Man, I'm done with this dumb [censored] thread.

Good input Jeff, I hadn't considered the "I decided to carry that day" aspect in court. Thanks for that.

On the other topic, I am old school, so I prefer to carry guns in condition 1, with a manual safety.

My carry guns have the thumb safety in the same place and operate in the same direction. Years of flipping the safety on/off every time a gun goes in/out of the holster has made it totally automatic.

Marc

If a guy already has a weapon on you, you think the proper response is to pull yours out? That's a real good way to get shot. I'm pretty sure you're just proving my point...

jeff - read your post. So you say the you leave it at home when you're going somewhere you're not allowed to carry? That's exactly the opposite of me. One stays in my truck at all times because I feel like the most likely scenario to need one is in my vehicle. I only carry it outside of my truck occasionally.

What if the one time you needed to draw the gun, you had been going somewhere it is illegal to carry? I would have had mine in that situation and you wouldn't have.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I keep one in my truck at all times because I think that's the highest risk area. It's also a place that my kids have access to at times without me being present. So why would I leave a gun with no safety with one in the chamber?

My experiences and your experiences show that my carrying methods support having the gun in the highest risk scenarios more often than your carrying methods.

I don't for a second buy into premeditation because I don't carry at all times. I carry when I feel the risk of needing it outweighs the inconvenience of carrying it. It's that simple. There's not a sane person on earth who would take that as "premeditation".

Proving that carrying an unloaded pistol is a bad idea.

Trying to pull a pistol on someone who already has one pointed at you is a bad idea. If someone pulls a gun on me and asks for my wallet, I'm going to hand them my wallet. So it wouldn't matter if I had one in the chamber or not.

I don't really understand what's going on here. I didn't call names or belittle any of you guys for how you carry, so I don't really understand the reaction to how I carry. Everyone should be able to make decisions for themselves. Not trying to make enemies here, and I wasn't trying to get a thread about gun choice turned into a debate about the merits of carrying with one in the chamber or not.

OP should do what he's most comfortable with. If you can comfortably carry a 1911 with a safety or something like a Shield with a safety and keep one in the chamber, that might be the best option. I like my P-3AT. It's small and reliable and I can carry it the way I want to and I feel prepared to use it if I need to. That should be your goal, whatever you believe it takes to achieve it.

p07,

about to head out so just a quick note. My last truck was broken into three times in five years. So far the current one, which is only a year old, has yet to be broken into. Not one thing was ever taken. Laptop, binoculars, and all other items were there in plain view but left behind. Talking with the cops, they say at least in the Austin - San Antonio corridor, well organized criminals target trucks in large parking lots looking for guns left in them. So, yes, I will not leave a gun in the truck if I can avoid it. There are occasions when it is unavoidable for one reason or another. Then, I have a spot that I can lock it away other than in the console. But, days I know I will be somewhere I cannot carry, yes, it stays home locked in the safe. I don't like that, but it is a balancing of factors.

The reasons several people are responding to your comments is there are some issues worthy of discussion. I certainly have no negative feelings towards you at all, just trying to provide some insight and thoughts based on my own training and experience to help you and others. I enjoy seeing others thoughts and have learned from others here and on other boards.

What if they have a knife and you are with your wife or kids? After you give wallet and/or purse they decide they don't want any witnesses so they start stabbing you and wife....you are gonna wish you were carrying and the gun was loaded.

You can do it however you want...I just don't want to depend on the mindset of a criminal to determine if me or my family lives or dies. I would like to have as much control as possible. I don't think anyone is trying to belittle you, just help you understand that to protect yourself and family you have to make a choice. If you are comfortable with the risk, then continue on.

PM sent

Just a recent example that we aren't really safe anywhere...not even at church.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/09/24/multiple-people-shot-at-tennessee-church-police-say.html

I have never carried in church........til now.

Glock 19, aiwb, every day, everywhere it is legal