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#6841718 - 08/01/17 06:00 PM FLIR ThermoSight Pro PTS233 - More Affordable Thermal
Outdoor Legacy Gear Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 03/18/11
Posts: 104
Loc: Appleby, TX
It looks like there is some real competition brewing in the thermal industry for who can come out with the most feature/quality packed thermal for the best price. Today, FLIR officially announced their new ThermoSight Pro PTS233 1.5-6x19 thermal rifle scope. The scope is going to be a direct competitor to Pulsar's new Core RXQ30V at $1,899. Check the specs out below and then we will dig in for a quick thought or two.

1.5x-6x Magnification
12 Micron Pixel Pitch
30Hz Refresh Rate
FLIRE Boson Core
320x256 Core Resolution
1280x960 FLCOS Display
Built-in Video Recorder - w/Recoil Activation Option
7 Color Palettes

Price: $2,199

Those are some pretty amazing specs and if the 12 micron pixel pitch doesn't jump out at you, I'm not sure what to say. That's absolute insanity for $2,200 optic. I'll admit I'm a little disappointed it's only 320x256 but it is the new Boson core and FLIR is claiming the quality of the core, along with the 12 microns, is going to make up for anything lost in the 17% lower resolution under a standard 384x288. We will just have to wait and see.

The real benefit here over the Core RXQ30V is the internal video recording on the PTS233. For someone who doesn't have any need for video recording or budget is a big concern, the RXQ is the logical option at a $400 savings. If video recording is important, the upgrade to the PTS233 is a logical upgrade. Again, until I get the PTS233 in my hands, I'm not willing to go on the record yet and say for sure that the PTS233 image quality is going to be but I'm very optimistic.

I've already got units on pre-order and I expect the first shipment within a matter of weeks if all goes well. FLIR is saying these optics are going to hit the market very soon.





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#6841730 - 08/01/17 06:09 PM Re: FLIR ThermoSight Pro PTS233 - More Affordable Thermal [Re: Outdoor Legacy Gear]
Dalee7892 Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 05/04/15
Posts: 1775
Loc: Denton County
Out of sight banana

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#6841799 - 08/01/17 07:13 PM Re: FLIR ThermoSight Pro PTS233 - More Affordable Thermal [Re: Outdoor Legacy Gear]
JCCinOhio Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 08/27/14
Posts: 56
Wonder how it will stack up to the XP38 and XP50?

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#6841914 - 08/01/17 08:38 PM Re: FLIR ThermoSight Pro PTS233 - More Affordable Thermal [Re: JCCinOhio]
Outdoor Legacy Gear Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 03/18/11
Posts: 104
Loc: Appleby, TX
Originally Posted By: JCCinOhio
Wonder how it will stack up to the XP38 and XP50?


Honestly, it won't stack up well because it really won't be a fair comparison. The 640x480 core, even at the Trail's 17 microns is just going to out perform any 320 core unit. This scope is being made to be a direct competitor to the Pulsar Core RXQ30V, which is a very fair comparison. One might ask how it will compare to the Pulsar Apexes or Trail XQ30/XQ38/XQ50 units though since they are 384 core units.

FLIR also announced today that there will be 2 more units in these series released during the 4th quarter of this year. I'll post the basic details we have so far below.

FLIR ThermoSight Pro PTS233 – 19 mm lens, 4X digital zoom and 12-degree field-of-view
FLIR ThermoSight Pro PTS533 -- 50 mm lens, 4X digital zoom and 4.5-degree field-of-view
FLIR ThermoSight Pro PTS733 -- 75 mm lens, 4X digital zoom and 3-degree field-of-view
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#6841955 - 08/01/17 09:14 PM Re: FLIR ThermoSight Pro PTS233 - More Affordable Thermal [Re: Outdoor Legacy Gear]
JCCinOhio Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 08/27/14
Posts: 56
I imagine if FLIR does come out with a 640 Boson unit that the price won't be too far off from the Pulsars.. Was planning on buying an xp50 before my November hunt trip to Texas. I know there is always something coming, but this is a BIG purchase for me and hope not to kick my self in the [censored] for not waiting.

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#6842056 - 08/01/17 10:45 PM Re: FLIR ThermoSight Pro PTS233 - More Affordable Thermal [Re: Outdoor Legacy Gear]
Outdoor Legacy Gear Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 03/18/11
Posts: 104
Loc: Appleby, TX
I can absolutely sympathize with that. And honestly, these mid year releases make buyers (like yourself) understandably take pause before pulling the trigger. Normally you'd expect new scopes to be announced in January at SHOT and then start hitting the market in April-June, just like all the Pulsars did. So normally you'd be "safe" buying now knowing nothing would likely be coming out until at least Spring of 2018.

I'm not exactly sure what the problem was, but the Armasight buy-out by FLIR in late 2016 was not completely transitioned by SHOT. There was tons of confusion in the the booth, the scope prototypes weren't labeled correctly, they didn't even know what was going to happen to the Armasight name etc. They just weren't settled in and ready for SHOT. It's taken them a lot longer than anyone expected to start rolling out new optics and honestly, I was about 99% sure they wouldn't come out with anything until SHOT in January 2018. But I totally understand why they are doing it mid-year. They believe they have the scopes market ready and they have the manufacturing capabilities to get them produced quickly. We are in the slowest time of year for the industry so if they can get scopes to the market in the next 90 days, they've missed very very little of the buying season.

I'm rambling. grin

I guess one way of looking at it is, you know what the XP38/XP50 are. They've been out for long enough now, we know how they perform, we know how they hold up, we know the quality, no bugs, no complaints etc. And let's face, it Pulsar is just a flat out awesome company to deal with. Their customer service is 2nd to none. If a new 640 FLIR comes out, you'll have to pre-order and/or wait in line and then you won't know near as much about it as you do the XP50. It's really a tough call, especially if you have a big hunt planned in November.

At the end of the day, I really can't see you kicking yourself buying an XP50. Even if FLIR did come out with a less expensive 640, I can't imagine it being that much less expensive or that much better. If you'd like, feel free to PM or call me anytime and I can let you know any tidbits I'm hearing from FLIR on what's coming down the pike.

- Jason
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#6842120 - 08/02/17 06:18 AM Re: FLIR ThermoSight Pro PTS233 - More Affordable Thermal [Re: Outdoor Legacy Gear]
Cleric Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 03/11/12
Posts: 2865
From what I saw of the rxq30 online, the flir will be more sought after just because the reviews will look better due to the video recorder. Some of the pulsars review look very bad because someone is trying to record the video with their cell phone pointed at the scope


Edited by Cleric (08/02/17 06:19 AM)

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#6842204 - 08/02/17 08:09 AM Re: FLIR ThermoSight Pro PTS233 - More Affordable Thermal [Re: Outdoor Legacy Gear]
JCCinOhio Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 08/27/14
Posts: 56
Thanks Jason. I imagine FLIR/Armasight is scrambling a bit trying to get back in the game with Pulsar. Doesn't seem the FLIR RS series gets much play on the forums.

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#6842284 - 08/02/17 09:13 AM Re: FLIR ThermoSight Pro PTS233 - More Affordable Thermal [Re: Cleric]
Pig_Popper Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/16/15
Posts: 1094
Loc: Fort Worth
Originally Posted By: Cleric
From what I saw of the rxq30 online, the flir will be more sought after just because the reviews will look better due to the video recorder. Some of the pulsars review look very bad because someone is trying to record the video with their cell phone pointed at the scope


I understand what you're saying - cellphone recording of a screen isn't optimal versus recorded video off the core.

I don't believe the FLIR will be more sought after because of online reviews and video even the very bad ones (video uploads).

Cost is a major driver and the cheaper option will get folks attention , online market reviews from retailers are influential and typically people don't expect to see user videos there so again I don't believe you're correct on the reason behind the FLIR being more sought after.

Wait till the recoil reports and operational reports start showing up as well , Pulsar's RXQ30V has a two month lead in the field....



Edited by Pig_Popper (08/02/17 09:15 AM)
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#6842311 - 08/02/17 09:40 AM Re: FLIR ThermoSight Pro PTS233 - More Affordable Thermal [Re: Outdoor Legacy Gear]
Dien Offline
Tracker

Registered: 08/16/12
Posts: 528
Loc: Grand Prairie
Maybe this will light a fire under Pulsar's CS department.

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#6842350 - 08/02/17 10:10 AM Re: FLIR ThermoSight Pro PTS233 - More Affordable Thermal [Re: Outdoor Legacy Gear]
ImTheReasonDovesMourn Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 1733
Loc: Greenville, TX
I hope the image quality is as good as the RXQ30v. My buddy brought his over last night and I was impressed. I don't necessarily need the ability to video, but if I can get it and equal image quality for $200 more, that's the one I'll get.
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Originally Posted By: Busheler
Nothing wears out a scope,like looking through one!..................

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#6842458 - 08/02/17 11:16 AM Re: FLIR ThermoSight Pro PTS233 - More Affordable Thermal [Re: Outdoor Legacy Gear]
Pig_Popper Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/16/15
Posts: 1094
Loc: Fort Worth
Small front objective , low magnification scopes are a challenge in the field for pinpoint shooting at extended distances - no matter the poor quality videos uploaded a key feature to have is useable/functional zoom.

The picture in picture feature on Pulsar's RXQ30V is undeniably providing hunters with the ability to make that first shot count.

Any news on FLIR having a similar feature in the PTS line?

I'll go on record to say I'd take PiP over onboard recording any day of the week and on holidays
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#6842796 - 08/02/17 02:47 PM Re: FLIR ThermoSight Pro PTS233 - More Affordable Thermal [Re: Cleric]
Outdoor Legacy Gear Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 03/18/11
Posts: 104
Loc: Appleby, TX
Originally Posted By: Cleric
From what I saw of the rxq30 online, the flir will be more sought after just because the reviews will look better due to the video recorder. Some of the pulsars review look very bad because someone is trying to record the video with their cell phone pointed at the scope


I agree. The number one question I get every single time I talk to a customer about an RXQ30V is what the image quality looks like and they immediately say, "I can't find any videos or images from the scope....can you send me some?" Or worse yet, if I'm talking to someone about thermal and they are on a tight budget and I mention the RXQ30V, they often say, "Ugh that thing has terrible image quality! Have you see those videos online? You can't tell a cow from a hog at 30 yards."

The buyer who REALLY wants to see video from the unit before he buys is the guy who's scrapping up and saving his dollars to buy thermal for the first time ever and I absolutely understand his concern and I'd be the exact same way. That $1,899 is a whole lot of money for him and he does not want to be disappointed when he gets the scope.

Originally Posted By: Pig_Popper

I understand what you're saying - cellphone recording of a screen isn't optimal versus recorded video off the core.

I don't believe the FLIR will be more sought after because of online reviews and video even the very bad ones (video uploads).

Cost is a major driver and the cheaper option will get folks attention , online market reviews from retailers are influential and typically people don't expect to see user videos there so again I don't believe you're correct on the reason behind the FLIR being more sought after.

Wait till the recoil reports and operational reports start showing up as well , Pulsar's RXQ30V has a two month lead in the field....



Agree and disagree. See my above comments from first hand experience. However, I do agree that cost is a major driver. The last several RXQ30V's I've sold, the buyers cared nothing about video recording and they would not have paid $300 more for the PTS233 just to get video recording. The entry level buyer is usually very price conscious. I also agree that the fact the RXQ's have been out for a couple months is going to help them this fall too. Things will have evened out by the new year, assuming FLIR is really able to ship the PTS233 as soon as they are expecting.

Originally Posted By: Dien
Maybe this will light a fire under Pulsar's CS department.


Customer Service? Are you having problems with them?

Originally Posted By: Pig_Popper

The picture in picture feature on Pulsar's RXQ30V is undeniably providing hunters with the ability to make that first shot count.

Any news on FLIR having a similar feature in the PTS line?

I'll go on record to say I'd take PiP over onboard recording any day of the week and on holidays


Wholeheartedly agree 100%. PiP is huge and I can't convince buyers of that until they use it for themselves in an actual shooting situation. It is the most under utilized and under hyped feature on any thermal scope in my opinion.

No mention of anything similar from FLIR. I'd love to see it happen though.
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Pulsar, Sightmark, FLIR, Armasight, ATN & More
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#6842817 - 08/02/17 03:15 PM Re: FLIR ThermoSight Pro PTS233 - More Affordable Thermal [Re: Outdoor Legacy Gear]
Cleric Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 03/11/12
Posts: 2865
I don't care about video recording. But the high frame rate in theory should benefit me.

I am going to wait and see if I can rent one of the pulsars. I was watching a video yesterday and it started with an ir mark 3 then showed a cell phone recording of the pulsar.... I was like uhh that's not fair for a number of reasons

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#6844801 - 08/03/17 10:41 PM Re: FLIR ThermoSight Pro PTS233 - More Affordable Thermal [Re: Outdoor Legacy Gear]
MDMORROW Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 01/10/11
Posts: 2900
Loc: McKinney & Pottsboro, TX
We will have a unit to demo sometime in the next couple of weeks. We also put in pre-orders at FLIR super early. We've got several units coming on one of the first shipments. Should be a great little thermal and the price is amazing for what you're going to be getting out of it. It's great seeing the technology improving.
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