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Re: Your local TPWD officer was found to be incorrect
[Re: 8pointdrop]
#6842607
08/02/17 05:47 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
You don't need a hunting license to shoot depradating feral hogs. That's under the "exceptions" section for depradating animals quoted above.
Because all feral hogs are depradating, for all practical purposes you don't need a license to hunt them. That said, 99.99% of the people that hunt them will have a license anyway.
What fouzman said about wanton waste. Doesn't apply to hogs topside or bottom. Maybe I just don't argue with the warden enough. I've made this call and was told the depredation has to be happening to YOUR land or livestock. Basically if the farmer is protecting his wheat from hogs or his cows from coyotes no license is needed. If I'm going spotlighting to help the farmer out, I'm hunting and need a license. Seemed to make sense so I didn't argue, maybe he's wrong nobody is perfect, but he has the ticket book so I ask him lots of questions. Me and the warden hunt together when he has time so maybe I just trust his word too much. If you're hunting with permission you're just the "landowner's agent" under the provision above. But, again, don't see why you'd need to be concerned about it. I assume being on a hunting forum you'd have a license anyway.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Your local TPWD officer was found to be incorrect
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6842612
08/02/17 05:49 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,605
fouzman
Veteran Tracker
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,605 |
You're Warden friend is wrong 8point. From the link I posted above...
"In Texas, feral hogs may be killed by landowners or their agents on their property"
Be kind of hard for a landowner to keep up with depredation control all by themselves, wouldn't it?
Rancher, why not just let your agent or lessee sign the MLD tags upon harvest?
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Re: Your local TPWD officer was found to be incorrect
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6842637
08/02/17 06:05 PM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,294
8pointdrop
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,294 |
Like I said maybe I just don't argue enough.... I agree NP I'll just buy a license.
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Re: Your local TPWD officer was found to be incorrect
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6842640
08/02/17 06:07 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,605
fouzman
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Not about arguing. I'm not going to argue with any GW. In-the-field-contact is not the time or place.
However, I do my level best to study the Annual Guide and all laws/regulations that pertain to my chosen outdoors pursuit. If I were cited (never been) for something I knew the Warden was incorrect about, I would certainly go the the JP with proof that the Warden was wrong. After the fact.
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Re: Your local TPWD officer was found to be incorrect
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6842774
08/02/17 07:32 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 18,554
ducknbass
THF Celebrity
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 18,554 |
Sorry fouz you're wrong! I've showed you your wrong clearly so I'll just let you continue to be wrong. You can lead a horse to water.
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Re: Your local TPWD officer was found to be incorrect
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6842792
08/02/17 07:46 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,605
fouzman
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What am I wrong about? Please show me again. Are you talking about needing a license to hunt feral hogs? I never said you don't.
Are you talking about a landowner being able to kill hogs that are a depredation threat without a license?
Landowner's retaining hogs killed due to depredation? On that one I said I may be incorrect. And why the exclamation point after telling me I'm wrong? This isn't a contest so no need to add emphasis.
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Re: Your local TPWD officer was found to be incorrect
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6842839
08/02/17 08:38 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,235
Double Naught Spy
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,235 |
Game warden on Lone Star Law said it was illegal to hunt hogs without a license...which isn't quite true. Hunting and protecting your property are two different things. If you have a license you are requires to retrieve the game to avoid waton waste. If your a farmer protecting your property from invasive hogs you cannot retrieve the hog. So hunting is the key word there. Hogs are not classified as game or game animals under Texas law. Whether "hunting" or "protecting property," the issue is covered by Texas hunting laws. "Hunting" is not distinctive from "protecting property" and per TPWD, hunting is simply... To capture, trap, take, or kill, and includes any attempt to capture, trap, take, or kill. So in this TPWD definition of hunting, there is no stipulated purpose for hunting, be it for food, materials, property protection, or whatever.
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Re: Your local TPWD officer was found to be incorrect
[Re: 8pointdrop]
#6843269
08/03/17 02:09 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
THF Trophy Hunter
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Joined: Jul 2013
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I don't know I guess I haven't met these ignorant Wardens. I believe y'all but it hasn't happened to me. What I meant by my statement is if I don't know the law or can't interpret it, I call the guy that writes the tickets and ask him. There's not a lot of times that I call, MOST laws in the book are cut and dry. Case in point the above post saying you must retain hogs because of wanton waste, book doesn't say that anywhere and it isn't true, not sure how that interpretation was reached. Only once did my county warden say he didn't know and would have to call Austin for my answer. If he's not sure, he finds out. Sounds like I should thank him for that after reading about ignorant wardens not knowing their job and writing tickets when no laws are broken.
Lots of the laws that are asked about on here over and over are quick yes and no questions for the wardens I deal with, guess I'm just lucky to have the wardens I have. There are many ranches where the biologist and gw show up to hand over mld tags and watch the landowner presign the tags. Which is directly in violation of the requirement NOT to presign tags. The mld system was instituted and no one really paid attention to the contradictions in the details. I don't blame the wardens for not knowing the ever changing details as much as I blame them for not using logic when enforcing game laws. Any idiot out to be able to figure out that landowners HAVE to be able to pre sign if they are going to make me sign a tag.
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: Your local TPWD officer was found to be incorrect
[Re: therancher]
#6843330
08/03/17 02:59 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
I don't know I guess I haven't met these ignorant Wardens. I believe y'all but it hasn't happened to me. What I meant by my statement is if I don't know the law or can't interpret it, I call the guy that writes the tickets and ask him. There's not a lot of times that I call, MOST laws in the book are cut and dry. Case in point the above post saying you must retain hogs because of wanton waste, book doesn't say that anywhere and it isn't true, not sure how that interpretation was reached. Only once did my county warden say he didn't know and would have to call Austin for my answer. If he's not sure, he finds out. Sounds like I should thank him for that after reading about ignorant wardens not knowing their job and writing tickets when no laws are broken.
Lots of the laws that are asked about on here over and over are quick yes and no questions for the wardens I deal with, guess I'm just lucky to have the wardens I have. There are many ranches where the biologist and gw show up to hand over mld tags and watch the landowner presign the tags. Which is directly in violation of the requirement NOT to presign tags. The mld system was instituted and no one really paid attention to the contradictions in the details. I don't blame the wardens for not knowing the ever changing details as much as I blame them for not using logic when enforcing game laws. Any idiot out to be able to figure out that landowners HAVE to be able to pre sign if they are going to make me sign a tag. Policy largely depends on the particular warden and the particular leases...I was on one where the permits were pre-signed, stored in a central location and we were given the go ahead to drive upwards of 15 miles of FM roads with a dead untagged deer in the truck to go to that central location to fetch permits.
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Re: Your local TPWD officer was found to be incorrect
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6843568
08/03/17 01:05 PM
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Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 588
DavidC.
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 588 |
Sure, were all human and make errors! The problem is when the game wardens make mistakes, you go to jail and have your reputation ruined, or pay crazy outrageous fines, in Louisiana you get no second chance, its the wardens way or no way. Our game departments enforcement divisions have gone out of control in my opinion, with little or no oversight and large budgets, nothing gets in their way of oppressing the rights of citizens in the name of "the law". Best way to fight back is simply to always buy a license and make sure you do things the right way, and in many cases that not enough, seems like brain washed cadets come out of the academy with one mission, get the hunter!
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Re: Your local TPWD officer was found to be incorrect
[Re: DavidC.]
#6843655
08/03/17 01:37 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 19,804
TurkeyHunter
THF Celebrity
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Joined: Apr 2005
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I'll bet the game wardens reading this are chuckling. Law enforcement officers make mistakes. Some laws may not be really clear as well. That's why we have a courts system. My encounters have been cordial and quick. Always had everything in order and treated them with respect. It was returned in kind.
To be determined
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Re: Your local TPWD officer was found to be incorrect
[Re: rifleman]
#6843965
08/03/17 03:57 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179 |
I don't know I guess I haven't met these ignorant Wardens. I believe y'all but it hasn't happened to me. What I meant by my statement is if I don't know the law or can't interpret it, I call the guy that writes the tickets and ask him. There's not a lot of times that I call, MOST laws in the book are cut and dry. Case in point the above post saying you must retain hogs because of wanton waste, book doesn't say that anywhere and it isn't true, not sure how that interpretation was reached. Only once did my county warden say he didn't know and would have to call Austin for my answer. If he's not sure, he finds out. Sounds like I should thank him for that after reading about ignorant wardens not knowing their job and writing tickets when no laws are broken.
Lots of the laws that are asked about on here over and over are quick yes and no questions for the wardens I deal with, guess I'm just lucky to have the wardens I have. There are many ranches where the biologist and gw show up to hand over mld tags and watch the landowner presign the tags. Which is directly in violation of the requirement NOT to presign tags. The mld system was instituted and no one really paid attention to the contradictions in the details. I don't blame the wardens for not knowing the ever changing details as much as I blame them for not using logic when enforcing game laws. Any idiot out to be able to figure out that landowners HAVE to be able to pre sign if they are going to make me sign a tag. Policy largely depends on the particular warden and the particular leases...I was on one where the permits were pre-signed, stored in a central location and we were given the go ahead to drive upwards of 15 miles of FM roads with a dead untagged deer in the truck to go to that central location to fetch permits. I'll bet that "go ahead" wasn't in writing either. The ridiculous thing about the law is having me sign. No good reason anyone but the hunter needs to sign ANY tag. There are MANY ridiculous game laws. Plugs in shotguns are another one.
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: Your local TPWD officer was found to be incorrect
[Re: DavidC.]
#6844088
08/03/17 05:28 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 485
TxBuck
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 485 |
Sure, were all human and make errors! The problem is when the game wardens make mistakes, you go to jail and have your reputation ruined, or pay crazy outrageous fines, in Louisiana you get no second chance, its the wardens way or no way. Our game departments enforcement divisions have gone out of control in my opinion, with little or no oversight and large budgets, nothing gets in their way of oppressing the rights of citizens in the name of "the law". Best way to fight back is simply to always buy a license and make sure you do things the right way, and in many cases that not enough, seems like brain washed cadets come out of the academy with one mission, get the hunter! Large budgets okay
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Re: Your local TPWD officer was found to be incorrect
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6844112
08/03/17 05:55 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,605
fouzman
Veteran Tracker
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Posts: 2,605 |
We only have about 500 Game Wardens in Texas and they don't make much money. TPWD LE Division does not have a "large budget".
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Re: Your local TPWD officer was found to be incorrect
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6844146
08/03/17 06:21 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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Why anyone would pick GW over DPS is a mystery to me. Bless their hearts I'm glad they do.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Your local TPWD officer was found to be incorrect
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6844176
08/03/17 06:48 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,693
krmitchell
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,693 |
Why anyone would pick GW over DPS is a mystery to me. Bless their hearts I'm glad they do. I'm hoping and assuming it is because they care about what they do and want to make a difference, at least the majority of them.
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Re: Your local TPWD officer was found to be incorrect
[Re: krmitchell]
#6844547
08/03/17 11:56 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 11,902
Simple Searcher
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 11,902 |
Why anyone would pick GW over DPS is a mystery to me. Bless their hearts I'm glad they do. I'm hoping and assuming it is because they care about what they do and want to make a difference, at least the majority of them. $53K after the first year, $65K at four years, plus benefits. (that is 2015 rate) And you can break game laws and still keep your job.
"Man is still a hunter, still a simple searcher after meat..." Robert C. Ruark
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Re: Your local TPWD officer was found to be incorrect
[Re: Simple Searcher]
#6844574
08/04/17 12:36 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179 |
Why anyone would pick GW over DPS is a mystery to me. Bless their hearts I'm glad they do. I'm hoping and assuming it is because they care about what they do and want to make a difference, at least the majority of them. $53K after the first year, $65K at four years, plus benefits. (that is 2015 rate) And you can break game laws and still keep your job.
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: Your local TPWD officer was found to be incorrect
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6845102
08/04/17 02:49 PM
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 3,791
Wytex
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 3,791 |
Not restrictions on depredating hogs , no license and you can keep the meat. We've been hunting depredating hogs for years on family place and neighbors place without a license. I called the local GW first year out and got the word right from her mouth, then called Austin and talked with a higher up in the LE division. If a place is selling hog hunts then the hunters need a license, i.e. outfitting for hogs.
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Re: Your local TPWD officer was found to be incorrect
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6848366
08/07/17 04:54 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,344
Duck_Hunter
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,344 |
My buddy had a warden tell him it was a requirement that ducks are retrieved. The law clearly says a reasonable attempt must be made. This is how he told me the story.
Warden was clearly having a bad day and this area of public water is popular and there are a lot of dead birds floating throughout the season. Warden cursed at him, called him unethical and violently shoved her wooden spoon handle into his gun trying to break his factory plug. Didn't establish he even shot the duck (there were other hunters in the area). Plus, where he shot it was protected from the wind and he could easily wade out to get it, but it was wounded and by the time he reloaded it swam out into current before he was able to put it out of its misery. By this time, it was too deep to wade to.
He was waiting for it to float across a creek opening into the shore and then hike around the creek and retrieve it. Warden was rude, unprofessional and intentionally misquoted the law, which was dangerous. A young or new hunter (although all hunters should know the laws) might have stripped down and try to swim out after a warden said that, which could cost someone their life.
My buddy is still chapped about it and might find a new county to hunt in this season. He was polite and did everything she asked because he didn't want to get into it with law enforcement. Plus, he knew she was wrong and his license, steel shot and magazine plug were all in order, so he wasn't going to get a ticket.
I just turned it on . I was looking bird dogs in the butt this morning.
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Re: Your local TPWD officer was found to be incorrect
[Re: Duck_Hunter]
#6848551
08/07/17 07:48 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 19,804
TurkeyHunter
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 19,804 |
My buddy had a warden tell him it was a requirement that ducks are retrieved. The law clearly says a reasonable attempt must be made. This is how he told me the story.
Warden was clearly having a bad day and this area of public water is popular and there are a lot of dead birds floating throughout the season. Warden cursed at him, called him unethical and violently shoved her wooden spoon handle into his gun trying to break his factory plug. Didn't establish he even shot the duck (there were other hunters in the area). Plus, where he shot it was protected from the wind and he could easily wade out to get it, but it was wounded and by the time he reloaded it swam out into current before he was able to put it out of its misery. By this time, it was too deep to wade to.
He was waiting for it to float across a creek opening into the shore and then hike around the creek and retrieve it. Warden was rude, unprofessional and intentionally misquoted the law, which was dangerous. A young or new hunter (although all hunters should know the laws) might have stripped down and try to swim out after a warden said that, which could cost someone their life.
My buddy is still chapped about it and might find a new county to hunt in this season. He was polite and did everything she asked because he didn't want to get into it with law enforcement. Plus, he knew she was wrong and his license, steel shot and magazine plug were all in order, so he wasn't going to get a ticket. One can always make a nicely worded official complaint. I believe it does get recorded. A rant typically get's ignored.
To be determined
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Re: Your local TPWD officer was found to be incorrect
[Re: TurkeyHunter]
#6848604
08/07/17 08:41 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,344
Duck_Hunter
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,344 |
My buddy had a warden tell him it was a requirement that ducks are retrieved. The law clearly says a reasonable attempt must be made. This is how he told me the story.
Warden was clearly having a bad day and this area of public water is popular and there are a lot of dead birds floating throughout the season. Warden cursed at him, called him unethical and violently shoved her wooden spoon handle into his gun trying to break his factory plug. Didn't establish he even shot the duck (there were other hunters in the area). Plus, where he shot it was protected from the wind and he could easily wade out to get it, but it was wounded and by the time he reloaded it swam out into current before he was able to put it out of its misery. By this time, it was too deep to wade to.
He was waiting for it to float across a creek opening into the shore and then hike around the creek and retrieve it. Warden was rude, unprofessional and intentionally misquoted the law, which was dangerous. A young or new hunter (although all hunters should know the laws) might have stripped down and try to swim out after a warden said that, which could cost someone their life.
My buddy is still chapped about it and might find a new county to hunt in this season. He was polite and did everything she asked because he didn't want to get into it with law enforcement. Plus, he knew she was wrong and his license, steel shot and magazine plug were all in order, so he wasn't going to get a ticket. One can always make a nicely worded official complaint. I believe it does get recorded. A rant typically get's ignored. That's what I said. I think he was worried about getting more grief in the future because it could've only been one warden in that area that did it.
I just turned it on . I was looking bird dogs in the butt this morning.
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Re: Your local TPWD officer was found to be incorrect
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6848606
08/07/17 08:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 446
Kevin Heath
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 446 |
Only game warden I want to get into it with is Wei Wei Lin, and we have to wrestle to resolve it!
Some days you're the pigeon, other days you are the statue!
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Re: Your local TPWD officer was found to be incorrect
[Re: Simple Searcher]
#6849267
08/08/17 01:18 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,235
Double Naught Spy
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,235 |
Why anyone would pick GW over DPS is a mystery to me. Bless their hearts I'm glad they do. I'm hoping and assuming it is because they care about what they do and want to make a difference, at least the majority of them. $53K after the first year, $65K at four years, plus benefits. (that is 2015 rate) And you can break game laws and still keep your job. Yep... https://www.dallasnews.com/news/texas/20...harges-kept-job
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Re: Your local TPWD officer was found to be incorrect
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6849280
08/08/17 01:34 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 28,032
Navasot
Hollywood
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Hollywood
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 28,032 |
Yes but we settled it at the doc without a ticket... was a newby Park Warden but was a nice guy. Think he was more embarrassed than anything
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