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#6839326 - 07/30/17 08:39 PM Rice bran ok during dove season?
Texas buckeye Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 11/22/11
Posts: 3545
Loc: Keller
Here's the situation, have a deer (corn) feeder that is in the middle of a pasture my lease manager wants to dove hunt over. He wants me to move the feeder out of the pasture every September to keep the warden off him when he dove hunts. Is rice bran, apparently a good deer attractant/candy, considered bait for dove hunting. As far as I know it isn't any kind of grain or seed, but I don't know much about it other than it is more powder like than anything else.

Would you feel comfortable hunting dove in a field where there was a feeder pen with rice bran in it?

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#6839350 - 07/30/17 08:56 PM Re: Rice bran ok during dove season? [Re: Texas buckeye]
rexmitchell Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 02/11/13
Posts: 2189
Nope, I wouldn't hunt near that.

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#6839406 - 07/30/17 09:25 PM Re: Rice bran ok during dove season? [Re: rexmitchell]
kmon1 Online   content
junior

Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 22235
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: rexmitchell
Nope, I wouldn't hunt near that.


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#6839438 - 07/30/17 09:44 PM Re: Rice bran ok during dove season? [Re: Texas buckeye]
Texas Dan Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 12344
"Normal agricultural practices" is the benchmark when it comes to anything being legal for dove hunting. If cows are present, you can hunt over anything that is normally used to feed cows. Or, you can hunt over any crop that was planted in a normal manner. And of course, you can hunt over any area in which a normal harvest has occurred. A feeder filled will with something that both doves and cows will eat would be legal, so long as it doesn't have a fence around it so that cows cannot use it.

If it's something that wouldn't pass the smell test as being normal, such as seed thrown out on a disked area with no evidence of any effort to cover it, it's most likely illegal.


Edited by Texas Dan (07/31/17 07:40 AM)
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Spring, Texas

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#6839655 - 07/31/17 08:59 AM Re: Rice bran ok during dove season? [Re: Texas buckeye]
BigBucky2014 Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 06/04/14
Posts: 241
Loc: Cypress, TX
How big is the field? You can't hunt dove over a baited "area". According to everything I've read, there's no absolute distance from a feeder that is defined. In other words it is subjective. For example, if you have a feeder 100 yds back in the woods from the edge of a field you dove hunt on, I wouldn't consider that hunting over bait. I might not consider it hunting over bait if it was 50 yds, however, 50 yards from a feeder in an open field is a different story. 200 yards in the middle of a field if the dove are flying over you to get to it is probably considered baiting as well.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what I think is legal or what you think is legal. If a prescribed distance isn't spelled out in the regulations, then I would suggest calling your game warden to ask. One note, there is something that is clearly spelled out in the regs - that is that you can't hunt an area where a feeder has been present for at least 10 days after the bait has been removed.

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#6839686 - 07/31/17 09:14 AM Re: Rice bran ok during dove season? [Re: Texas Dan]
fouzman Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/09/10
Posts: 1584
Loc: Houston, TX
Originally Posted By: Texas Dan
A feeder filled will with something that both doves and cows will eat would be legal, so long as it doesn't have a fence around it so that cows cannot use it.


I think you're dead wrong and should talk to the GW before attempting to hunt doves over a deer feeder with corn in it. Both cattle and doves will eat corn and having a fence around it is meaningless. Not all deer feeders in Texas have pens around them and are on ranches where cattle are present.

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#6839699 - 07/31/17 09:20 AM Re: Rice bran ok during dove season? [Re: Texas buckeye]
fouzman Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/09/10
Posts: 1584
Loc: Houston, TX
https://www.fws.gov/le/pdf/dove-hunting-and-baiting.pdf

Rice bran is considered "other" feed and the lease manager knows it's there and what purpose it's there for.

"Baiting means the direct or indirect placing, exposing, depositing, distributing, or scattering of salt,
grain, or other feed that could serve as a lure or attraction for migratory game birds to, on, or over any
areas where hunters are attempting to take them."

"You cannot hunt doves or any other migratory game bird by the aid of baiting or on or over any baited
area where you know or reasonably should know that the area is or has been baited"

If your "lease manager" will wantonly break game laws for a few birds, I'd be worried about what else he might do. Like shooting deer around your and other lease members feeders when you're not there.


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#6839726 - 07/31/17 09:33 AM Re: Rice bran ok during dove season? [Re: fouzman]
Halfadozen Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 8427
Loc: Parker County
Originally Posted By: fouzman
https://www.fws.gov/le/pdf/dove-hunting-and-baiting.pdf

Rice bran is considered "other" feed and the lease manager knows it's there and what purpose it's there for.

"Baiting means the direct or indirect placing, exposing, depositing, distributing, or scattering of salt,
grain, or other feed that could serve as a lure or attraction for migratory game birds to, on, or over any
areas where hunters are attempting to take them."

"You cannot hunt doves or any other migratory game bird by the aid of baiting or on or over any baited
area where you know or reasonably should know that the area is or has been baited"

If your "lease manager" will wantonly break game laws for a few birds, I'd be worried about what else he might do. Like shooting deer around your and other lease members feeders when you're not there.

Sounds like the lease manager wants the feeder removed, but OP is asking if it is okay to keep there if it is rice bran.
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#6839736 - 07/31/17 09:36 AM Re: Rice bran ok during dove season? [Re: Texas buckeye]
fouzman Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/09/10
Posts: 1584
Loc: Houston, TX
I got that. Doesn't matter if the feeder is removed or not. ALL rice bran would have to be cleaned out of the feeder pen.

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#6839751 - 07/31/17 09:43 AM Re: Rice bran ok during dove season? [Re: Texas buckeye]
Texas buckeye Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 11/22/11
Posts: 3545
Loc: Keller
The lease manager isn't into breaking laws, don't worry.

My main question is do you guys consider rice bran "other food" or in this situation "bait".

Sounds like the consensus is yes, so I will just pull the feeder out and leave the pen clean.

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#6839777 - 07/31/17 10:01 AM Re: Rice bran ok during dove season? [Re: Texas buckeye]
fouzman Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/09/10
Posts: 1584
Loc: Houston, TX
cheers

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#6839984 - 07/31/17 12:15 PM Re: Rice bran ok during dove season? [Re: Texas Dan]
8pointdrop Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 4874
Loc: My favorite place TEXAS
Originally Posted By: Texas Dan
"Normal agricultural practices" is the benchmark when it comes to anything being legal for dove hunting. If cows are present, you can hunt over anything that is normally used to feed cows. Or, you can hunt over any crop that was planted in a normal manner. And of course, you can hunt over any area in which a normal harvest has occurred. A feeder filled will with something that both doves and cows will eat would be legal, so long as it doesn't have a fence around it so that cows cannot use it.

If it's something that wouldn't pass the smell test as being normal, such as seed thrown out on a disked area with no evidence of any effort to cover it, it's most likely illegal.

Was told by my county warden that if I knowingly hunt dove going to or from ANY form of bait he'd ticket me. The call was over hunting dove that were coming off a feed lot, they were eating from the pens.

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#6840057 - 07/31/17 01:03 PM Re: Rice bran ok during dove season? [Re: fouzman]
Texas Dan Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 12344
Originally Posted By: fouzman
Originally Posted By: Texas Dan
A feeder filled will with something that both doves and cows will eat would be legal, so long as it doesn't have a fence around it so that cows cannot use it.


I think you're dead wrong and should talk to the GW before attempting to hunt doves over a deer feeder with corn in it. Both cattle and doves will eat corn and having a fence around it is meaningless. Not all deer feeders in Texas have pens around them and are on ranches where cattle are present.


Granted, a deer feeder used to feed cows might be seen as a stretch. Still, I have seen guys hunt doves over more common feed areas with no fear of it being seen as illegal.

Your point is well taken.


Edited by Texas Dan (07/31/17 01:04 PM)
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Spring, Texas

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#6840067 - 07/31/17 01:09 PM Re: Rice bran ok during dove season? [Re: 8pointdrop]
Texas Dan Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 12344
Originally Posted By: 8pointdrop
Originally Posted By: Texas Dan
"Normal agricultural practices" is the benchmark when it comes to anything being legal for dove hunting. If cows are present, you can hunt over anything that is normally used to feed cows. Or, you can hunt over any crop that was planted in a normal manner. And of course, you can hunt over any area in which a normal harvest has occurred. A feeder filled will with something that both doves and cows will eat would be legal, so long as it doesn't have a fence around it so that cows cannot use it.

If it's something that wouldn't pass the smell test as being normal, such as seed thrown out on a disked area with no evidence of any effort to cover it, it's most likely illegal.

Was told by my county warden that if I knowingly hunt dove going to or from ANY form of bait he'd ticket me. The call was over hunting dove that were coming off a feed lot, they were eating from the pens.



I would invite any game warden to join me in front of a judge in such a case. I suspect, or at least sincerely hope he was referring to bait placed by hand without regard to any agricultural purpose. Normal feed lots would clearly be an example of a normal agricultural practice.

The best dove hunt I ever made was on a soybean field that had been harvested a few days earlier. There were leftover beans scattered everywhere and we really needed several more hunters just to keep the birds flying. Completely legal.
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Dan,

Spring, Texas

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#6840085 - 07/31/17 01:21 PM Re: Rice bran ok during dove season? [Re: Texas buckeye]
Texas Dan Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 12344
Again guys, the term "normal agricultural practice" was given to me many years ago by a federal officer. I was a guest of a guest on a hunt in another state when both a federal and state game warden drove up to check us. In our case, the field had been disked and seed had been scattered over it. As the federal officer explained, it was the manner in which the field had been prepared that caused it to be illegal. There had been no effort to cover the seed as would be the case when planting a cover crop.

"What is Legal?
You can hunt doves on, over, or from:
• Lands or areas where seeds or grains have been scattered solely as the result of normal agricultural operations, which include normal agricultural harvestings, normal agricultural post- harvest manipulations, or normal agricultural practices.
• Lands planted by means of top-sowing or aerial seeding where seeds have been scattered solely as the result of a normal agricultural planting, a planting for agricultural soil erosion control, or a planting for post-mining land reclamation.
• Lands or areas where grain or feed has been distributed or scattered solely as the result of the manipulation of an agricultural crop or other feed on the land where grown. Standing crops.
• Lands planted as wildlife food plots, provided the seed is planted in a manner consistent with Cooperative State Research, Education, and Extension Service recommendations for the planting of wildlife food plots. In states without Cooperative Extension Service recommendations for the planting of food plots, the seed must be planted in accordance with Extension Service guidelines for producing a crop.
• Lands planted as pasture improvements or for the purpose of grazing livestock. (The Fish and Wildlife Service will not make a distinction between agricultural fields planted with the intent to gather a crop and those planted without such intent provided the planting is carried out in a manner consistent with the recommendations of State Extension Specialists)."

As for hunting over livestock feedlots and similar areas...

"Agricultural activities other than planting or harvesting also scatter grain or other feed in agricultural areas. You can hunt doves in such areas provided the agricultural operation involved is a normal agricultural practice (i.e., one that produces livestock or a crop) and follows recommendations of State Extension Specialists. Examples include "hogged down" fields (where livestock have been allowed to enter fields and feed on standing crops) and feedlots (small enclosed areas where farmers feed livestock to increase their weight). You cannot, however, hunt in an area where grain, salt, or other feed has been placed to improve dove hunting."

Hats off to Halfadozen for his earlier post that included the source of this guidance. cheers
_________________________
Dan,

Spring, Texas

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