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#6817948 - 07/10/17 07:51 AM Throat Erosion
DLALLDER Offline
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Registered: 11/23/05
Posts: 3122
Loc: Pittsburg, Texas
How bad is throat Erosion in 30-06 when MV is pushed beyond 3000 fps? Is throat Erosion due to type of powder or amount of powder? Thanks Daniel
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#6818055 - 07/10/17 09:14 AM Re: Throat Erosion [Re: DLALLDER]
RiverRider Offline
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Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 7289
Loc: Wise Co.
I'd say that for that cartridge, erosion should be pretty minimal. The amount of powder probably is the major factor, but type of powder has some influence also. This is strictly my opinion based on a lot of reading----not shooting a lot of barrels out.
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#6818062 - 07/10/17 09:19 AM Re: Throat Erosion [Re: DLALLDER]
FiremanJG Offline
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Registered: 12/16/08
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Size of the bore is also a factor.

30 cal will erode less than .22 cal.
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#6818064 - 07/10/17 09:21 AM Re: Throat Erosion [Re: DLALLDER]
DStroud Offline
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Registered: 11/02/11
Posts: 1585
Loc: Waco
Both amount and type make a difference as does bullet weight. I have read two completely different schools of thought on bullet weight. One being heavy bullets burn out the throat quicker as they are in the throat area longer due to inertia as lighter bullets are easier to push down the barrel thus drop temps in the throat quicker? Probaly not a good explanation but maybe you get the idea.
The other is that lighter bullets can normally handle more powder and move faster thus wear out the barrel quicker.
Not sure it matters really which is correct the barrel will still only last as long as it lasts and you get another.
I do know that in general ball type powders are supposed to burn "cooler" and help barrel life.

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#6818068 - 07/10/17 09:24 AM Re: Throat Erosion [Re: DLALLDER]
kmon1 Online   content
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Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 22263
Loc: Texas
Several things will come into play with throat erosion. Like Fireman said bore diameter plays a part

Like has been discussed on here before bullet weight and powder selection also come into play

Biggest factor in throat erosion though is shooting as the barrel gets hotter and hotter. You could easily erode out a varmint barrel in less than a day on a pasture poodle hunt if you didn't let it cool off on a good days shooting.
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#6818069 - 07/10/17 09:24 AM Re: Throat Erosion [Re: DLALLDER]
RiverRider Offline
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Registered: 11/11/07
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Loc: Wise Co.
I don't recall anyone ever talking about wearing out a .30-06 barrel. Anyone else?
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#6818070 - 07/10/17 09:26 AM Re: Throat Erosion [Re: RiverRider]
kmon1 Online   content
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Registered: 09/27/06
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Originally Posted By: RiverRider
I don't recall anyone ever talking about wearing out a .30-06 barrel. Anyone else?


Only ones I can think of are on M1 Garand's that saw use in the wars.
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#6818074 - 07/10/17 09:27 AM Re: Throat Erosion [Re: DLALLDER]
RiverRider Offline
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Registered: 11/11/07
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JG, you've shot out a .308, haven't you?
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#6818085 - 07/10/17 09:34 AM Re: Throat Erosion [Re: RiverRider]
kmon1 Online   content
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Registered: 09/27/06
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Originally Posted By: RiverRider
JG, you've shot out a .308, haven't you?


I think you are correct on that one, seem to remember he shot out the 308 then switched the barrel out to a 260
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#6818107 - 07/10/17 09:49 AM Re: Throat Erosion [Re: kmon1]
FiremanJG Offline
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Registered: 12/16/08
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Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Originally Posted By: kmon1
Originally Posted By: RiverRider
JG, you've shot out a .308, haven't you?


I think you are correct on that one, seem to remember he shot out the 308 then switched the barrel out to a 260


Negative.

I did not shoot out a .308, I just quit .308 for a while, after 1500 rounds. smile

Was trying to hunt with it, and shoot competition with it, trying to hang with 6 mm, 6.5mm and some 7mm. You gotta be a wind wizard to do that.

I rebarreled for .260 Rem, shot that out, rebarreled for 6.5 Creedmoor, shot that out, and am on the second 6.5 Creedmoor barrel. Still have that original Savage .308 barrel, though, never know when I might need it. wink
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#6818151 - 07/10/17 10:08 AM Re: Throat Erosion [Re: DLALLDER]
Buzzsaw Offline
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Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 10300
Loc: Frisco, Texas
Hey, this throat erosion things brings up a question. I hear the term "donut" forming in the throat or in the rifling after shooting allot. what's up with this and should you "nylon brush" it down till it goes away? patch it out?

How do you know you have the donut? Borescope only?
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#6818161 - 07/10/17 10:21 AM Re: Throat Erosion [Re: DLALLDER]
RiverRider Offline
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Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 7289
Loc: Wise Co.
The donut I am familiar with forms in the case neck after the case has been used a number of times. I have heard of a carbon ring forming in the leade, but I don't recall it being called a donut. Not that it matters, tbough. I use Sea Foam tp get carbon out of the chamber and leade once in a while though as a preventive measure.
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#6818172 - 07/10/17 10:36 AM Re: Throat Erosion [Re: DLALLDER]
ChadTRG42 Offline
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Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 11492
Loc: Lewisville, TX
Throat erosion is caused by multiple factors. I've spoken to barrel mfg's and PTG about this. The amount of powder, the powder type, case design (short neck vs. long neck, sharp shoulder angle vs not sharp angle), bullet weight and bullet speed, rate of fire and barrel temp are big factors.

On the 30-06, the case has a very long neck. This long neck takes a lot of the brunt of the heat away from the throat. The shorter the case neck, the more heat goes into the throat wearing it out faster. The shoulder angle also comes into play. A steep shoulder angle with a short neck would accelerate throat wear. I don't see a 30-06 wearing out before 5K rounds or more. I know shooters who had 10K plus rounds down an AI 308 rifle. Rifles Only had one of the original AI 308's that was their donor/loaner rifle, and it had well over 10K rounds. It was still a half moa shooter with good ammo. 308's just don't wear out that fast. The 30-06 with the longer neck would certainly give you a high round count of barrel life.

On wearing out barrels, what I've seen is faster speeds and lighter bullets will accelerate barrel wear compared to slower speeds and heavier bullets. When the 6.5mm craze hit the competition shooters, most went to the 260 Rem as a competition round. The most common bullet was the 142 SMK and then Berger came out with the 140 VLD. After we were shooting the 140/142 bullets, several of us went to the 130 VLD when it came out. I was running a 130 VLD at 2950 fps, compared to my 140 VLD at 2820 fps. The 130 VLD was awesome because the BC was high enough and going fast enough to out perform the 140 grain bullets. I kept track of my throat wear with a bullet comparator gauge. I don't remember the exact throat wear numbers, but the 140 grain would wear at a modest pace. When I switched to the 130 grain, it would wear the throat over twice the amount the 140 did. The throat was moving further away very quickly with few rounds shot, so I went back to the 140's. Several shooters switched over to the 130 VLD, and only shot these bullets for the life of a barrel. I knew 1 shooter who got 1100 rounds on a 260 Rem barrel running the 130 grain. The other shooter saw the same throat erosion I did with the 130's and switched back to the 140 grain before the barrel was too far gone. The 140 grain load had about 43 grains of powder and the 130 grain load had about 44.5 grain of powder. So each round had about 1.5 grains more powder for the 130 grain bullet. More powder equals more energy and more heat.

My opinion is that lighter bullets going faster will wear out a barrel faster than heavier bullets going slower. I've worn out a 260 Rem barrel and a 300 Win Mag barrel. Along with my results and talking to other high end shooters/reloaders and people in the industry, I've come to this conclusion. I now shoot A LOT of 308 Win. It's just a fun round, and inexpensive to shoot. And I have thousands of rounds of it to shoot.
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#6818176 - 07/10/17 10:39 AM Re: Throat Erosion [Re: RiverRider]
Buzzsaw Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 10300
Loc: Frisco, Texas
Originally Posted By: RiverRider
The donut I am familiar with forms in the case neck after the case has been used a number of times. I have heard of a carbon ring forming in the leade, but I don't recall it being called a donut. Not that it matters, tbough. I use Sea Foam tp get carbon out of the chamber and leade once in a while though as a preventive measure.



Thanks Red River, I believe you got it. I need to try some SeaFoam
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#6823754 - 07/15/17 07:45 PM Re: Throat Erosion [Re: ChadTRG42]
Marc in Bastrop Offline
Tracker

Registered: 11/02/10
Posts: 876
Loc: Bastrop County
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
Throat erosion is caused by multiple factors. I've spoken to barrel mfg's and PTG about this. The amount of powder, the powder type, case design (short neck vs. long neck, sharp shoulder angle vs not sharp angle), bullet weight and bullet speed, rate of fire and barrel temp are big factors.

On the 30-06, the case has a very long neck. This long neck takes a lot of the brunt of the heat away from the throat. The shorter the case neck, the more heat goes into the throat wearing it out faster. The shoulder angle also comes into play. A steep shoulder angle with a short neck would accelerate throat wear. I don't see a 30-06 wearing out before 5K rounds or more. I know shooters who had 10K plus rounds down an AI 308 rifle. Rifles Only had one of the original AI 308's that was their donor/loaner rifle, and it had well over 10K rounds. It was still a half moa shooter with good ammo. 308's just don't wear out that fast. The 30-06 with the longer neck would certainly give you a high round count of barrel life.

On wearing out barrels, what I've seen is faster speeds and lighter bullets will accelerate barrel wear compared to slower speeds and heavier bullets. When the 6.5mm craze hit the competition shooters, most went to the 260 Rem as a competition round. The most common bullet was the 142 SMK and then Berger came out with the 140 VLD. After we were shooting the 140/142 bullets, several of us went to the 130 VLD when it came out. I was running a 130 VLD at 2950 fps, compared to my 140 VLD at 2820 fps. The 130 VLD was awesome because the BC was high enough and going fast enough to out perform the 140 grain bullets. I kept track of my throat wear with a bullet comparator gauge. I don't remember the exact throat wear numbers, but the 140 grain would wear at a modest pace. When I switched to the 130 grain, it would wear the throat over twice the amount the 140 did. The throat was moving further away very quickly with few rounds shot, so I went back to the 140's. Several shooters switched over to the 130 VLD, and only shot these bullets for the life of a barrel. I knew 1 shooter who got 1100 rounds on a 260 Rem barrel running the 130 grain. The other shooter saw the same throat erosion I did with the 130's and switched back to the 140 grain before the barrel was too far gone. The 140 grain load had about 43 grains of powder and the 130 grain load had about 44.5 grain of powder. So each round had about 1.5 grains more powder for the 130 grain bullet. More powder equals more energy and more heat.

My opinion is that lighter bullets going faster will wear out a barrel faster than heavier bullets going slower. I've worn out a 260 Rem barrel and a 300 Win Mag barrel. Along with my results and talking to other high end shooters/reloaders and people in the industry, I've come to this conclusion. I now shoot A LOT of 308 Win. It's just a fun round, and inexpensive to shoot. And I have thousands of rounds of it to shoot.


Thank you for this post.

Marc
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