Africa hunting will and is already becoming what it has happened here. Look at some of the old African hunting photos and read some of the old stories about African hunting. Those days are gone. I even remember talking to some of the hunters I had 35 years or so ago and can compare that to what I hear today and there is a world of difference. You "purest" will have to eat some crow when you someday go there and hunt behind the dreaded HF.

ZOO gotta check your guns at the gate!!!

You only hunt behind HF in certain places, primarily South Africa. There are some in Namibia and Botswana, but they are much more few and far between.

Africa hunting will and is already becoming what it has happened here. Look at some of the old African hunting photos and read some of the old stories about African hunting. Those days are gone. I even remember talking to some of the hunters I had 35 years or so ago and can compare that to what I hear today and there is a world of difference. You "purest" will have to eat some crow when you someday go there and hunt behind the dreaded HF.

That's not exactly correct. You hear more about the (primarily South African) HF stuff because it's cheaper and runs a pretty big volume of hunters through.
There's still mostly non-HF hunting in Africa as a whole. And some places that are still much like the old days. You have to pay for it though - which has always been the case.
In any event, the HF situations, motivations, etc. are much different in Africa than in America. For example, poaching is not just a problem - it's a war over there. Anyone familiar with the nuances involved knows it is an apples to oranges comparison. I can get why some over here like to make the comparison though.

https://www.facebook.com/trophythefilm/videos/1868984910030697/ - Film Preview

Endangered African species like elephants, rhinos, and lions march closer to extinction each year. Their devastating decline is fueled by a global desire to consume and collect these majestic animals. Trophy investigates the powerhouse businesses of big game hunting, breeding, and wildlife conservation. Through the eyes of impassioned individuals who drive these industries, filmmakers Shaul Schwarz and Christina Clusiau grapple with the complex consequences of imposing economic value on animals.


Do breeding, farming, and hunting offer some of the few remaining options to conserve these species before it's too late?

Join this critical discussion on this thread and on social media found here: http://bit.ly/TrophyTheFilm
Full film in theaters this September.

If you are going to state facts then state correct facts: white rhino are not endangered, lions are not endangered nor is the African elephant

I don't care how anyone hunts. I am not the one that says anything bad about hunting unless it is an ear tagged WT. Africa has big problems politically and game wise. Poaching and trying to feed individuals are taking an enormous toll on their game. I remember what one of my hunters who had went their told me. He had back then shot an Elephant. All he wanted was the feet and tusks. The locals came and started butchering. He told me that an old man tried to take a piece of meat from a young woman and she cut him across the belly and his guts fell out and he died. He left got his trophies and said he would never go back. You can say there are plenty of big places to still hunt there and that may be true. If that is the case you better go while they are still there. The next generation will be looking back while hunting a 500 acre HF and hunting an ear tagged Lion or whatever and taking about the way they heard it used to be.

Tanzania is the #1 place to go for a true "old style" mixed bag safari. It ain't cheap though.

20,000 white rhino is not exactly an abundant population in a politically unstable area with extreme poverty with a horn bringing more than a year's wages or 10x a year's wages for some.

Due to the downward population trend, the African Elephant is now listed as Vulnerable.

http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/12392/0

The population trend for African elephants is in a significant downward trend primarily due to poaching.

https://www.iucn.org/news/species/201609/poaching-behind-worst-african-elephant-losses-25-years-%E2%80%93-iucn-report

When I was in Tanzania (took photos only), before entering the control areas of the Serengeti, ALL vehicles had to check in with the warden station at the controlled entry point.

Any vehicle they saw in the control area not on their list was shot on sight, no questions asked, no warnings. People they did not recognize as being with the vehicles, shot. Locals not on their list. Shot. The converse was equally true we were told. If poachers saw the rangers, they opened fire. Poaching was still a problem, but they were knocking it back and were not messing around. Of course the root problem is the Chinese that want rhino horn, when Viagra would fix their problems better and cheaper. Ivory is beautiful, but ivory micarta looks about as good and works better.

While there, I had zero interest in shooting anything. After seeing elephants up close, I could never bring myself to shoot one other than a rogue on a rampage through a town. Rhino, or the cats same. I would just as soon take a photo. At least in Tanzania, local guides were required by law. They were incredibly knowledgeable, well spoken, well educated and a real delight.

Here is a photo I took of a group of rangers/game wardens loading up to go on patrol.

I have more pere David, more addax, and more Arabian oryx than survive in their native land. And I'm only one of thousands of ranchers here that raise animals like these for the hunting market.

Of course trophy hunting is the very best way to conserve animals. It's been proven over and over and over again.

I don't know much about African hunting and it has never interest me even the slightest but the documentary I watched basically credited the cattle ranchers in Africa for the demise of much of the wildlife. The ranchers were killing lions and all sorts of animals to protect their cows and so their cows didn't have to compete with other animals for food. Some of these large hunting ranches put up large fences keeping lions and other animals from the cow ranches and through hunting were able to increase the numbers of almost all the animals in the region. so yeah id say hunting can make a difference.

HF hunting isn't conserving hunting as we know it period!!! There really isn't any argument to it except from the ones who profit from it!!! I'm not against HF and they are not all the same. Some people have bad dang neighbors neighbors and have no choice.

20,000 white rhino is not exactly an abundant population in a politically unstable area with extreme poverty with a horn bringing more than a year's wages or 10x a year's wages for some.

Due to the downward population trend, the African Elephant is now listed as Vulnerable.

http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/12392/0

The population trend for African elephants is in a significant downward trend primarily due to poaching.

https://www.iucn.org/news/species/201609/poaching-behind-worst-african-elephant-losses-25-years-%E2%80%93-iucn-report

When I was in Tanzania (took photos only), before entering the control areas of the Serengeti, ALL vehicles had to check in with the warden station at the controlled entry point.

Any vehicle they saw in the control area not on their list was shot on sight, no questions asked, no warnings. People they did not recognize as being with the vehicles, shot. Locals not on their list. Shot. The converse was equally true we were told. If poachers saw the rangers, they opened fire. Poaching was still a problem, but they were knocking it back and were not messing around. Of course the root problem is the Chinese that want rhino horn, when Viagra would fix their problems better and cheaper. Ivory is beautiful, but ivory micarta looks about as good and works better.

While there, I had zero interest in shooting anything. After seeing elephants up close, I could never bring myself to shoot one other than a rogue on a rampage through a town. Rhino, or the cats same. I would just as soon take a photo. At least in Tanzania, local guides were required by law. They were incredibly knowledgeable, well spoken, well educated and a real delight.

Here is a photo I took of a group of rangers/game wardens loading up to go on patrol.

HF hunting isn't conserving hunting as we know it period!!! There really isn't any argument to it except from the ones who profit from it!!! I'm not against HF and they are not all the same. Some people have bad dang neighbors neighbors and have no choice.

Well said Don, hunger is a powerful motivator.