You will need to use sweep 90s, those only come in the gray electrical. The gray conduit doesn't breakdown like white over time when exposed to sun.

Yep, grey pipe sweeps the only way to go..

If you go 4 wire, I dont think you need the grounds at the shop since you will have to run a bare copper ground (the 4th wire) back to the main and grnd. The common wire will have a yellow stripe to differentiate its designation at both ends.

Since you're at Cedar Creek I'm guessing your under TVEC's reign? I know underground primary is expensive, but from your second picture it looks like the the road isn't that far - since this will "technically" be a new service - does it qualify for the new service credit? When I built my house a few years ago it was like a $1500-2000 credit towards the install (which didn't equate to much since we had to go 1200')

We have bluebonnet coop. I just called them and my load at the house is pretty small since my main stove/oven uses all gas and the water heater is gas. The only real load on the house is the A/C, dryer, and one electric oven.

Since the only real load on the barn will be the window unit a/c, 100 amps should be more than enough for me.

Sure, I have tons of tools, but they are all 110 and when I use them, I open the big door and set them outside and can always use the garage plugs as well.

No new service credit for me :P

They DO provide a 400 amp service, if I wanted, or a new pole.. but all those routes seem expensive and, as she said on the phone, I should have zero issue with the power consumption of my current 200amp service.

So, 4 wires and I do not need a ground pole at the shop?

So, it looks like just buying a 4-wire bundle, 130ft (for a little extra), burying it in gray 2.5" pvc .. so.. size and type of wire? (going for safe 100 amp service since the breakers will only be 100 amp) and cost.

Thanks guys!

R

I would not do four wires. Save the bucks and upgrade the wire size a bump. OK, aluminum wiring memories and tips...

Wired many houses for cheaper builders using aluminum. Our work was guaranteed period. Over the several years I did that, we got called back to our houses that had problems. Most always the aluminum wired houses.

Aluminum is fragile, touch the bundle with a staple and you'll likely be back a few years later repairing a burnt open wire.

Aluminum is corrosive. You must use special switches and plugs and still hope for the best. It's not unusual to open an alum box and see corroded battery connector looking mess. This won't be the issue with you, as you will use copper downstream from the box, but be aware.

Your connections to the box will be alum friendly connections, but not corrosion resistant. Find a tube of no-ox and use it on the end of the feeder cable where it connects to the box.

Do not over bend or kink your aluminum cable, it will crack and burn out. Do not allow it any movement, but don't let anything squeeze or impact the cable body. Use 2.5" gray pipe and long sweeps, bigger pipe means easier pulls and you have a very long pull. Clean, prime, and glue it very well, you want it waterproof. DO NOT use a mechanical puller (chain hoist or come along) to pull your wire, that will cost you bigtime.

Get a big bucket of Monkey Snot and roll up your sleeves and get right in there with your hands as you feed the cable into the pipe, it has to be completely wet to make the tip easily. You will need a pull rope to do this job.

I imagine that i would open the ditch and lay the pipe beside it and run and glue it up a section at a time and ease the filled pipe into the hole once filled an glued up. This is a hard job, get some help.

Good luck! BTW, nice looking place!

OH, where that cable enters the service, use a bushing, not a clamp on the entrance hole. Use extra large staples to support the cable up the stud, but make tunnels for the wire, don't let the staple touch the wire. I hope we're talking wood studs here.

Because I've seen it fail many many times. I'm not a scientist nor an engineer. There is a reason in Texas we prominently use copper. It's not because it's more cost efficient on the front end.

In the old days with old lugs not designed for Aluminum it failed due to expansion/contraction and dissimilar metals. Lugs designed for aluminum have been in use for years.

Wired to the shop breaker box for 200 but only use a 100 amp main. Got 2 220's and a bunch of 110 circuits & room for 1 more 220 or 2 110's. I have never regretted wiring plugs in for 220. Remember you will never be using them all at the same time, but the first time you decide to plug in a big compressor or a cracker box welder you'll be glad you did. My transformer will carry the load and if I ever need to jump to 200 amp, the breaker box is already wired for it......

I've got a freezer, fridge, & RV plug that stay on all the time......

....and it's all copper wire!

I plan to use a 200 amp box, and wire a 220 plug or two, and just not use more than one at a time. I do not care, nor would I see the cost value in, running a full 200 amps to the barn since that would cost me a WHOLE lot of money to upgrade the house AND/or the transformer to handle more than 200 amps.

So, maybe when I am dead, someone may want to upgrade the service, but I will leave that to them.. lol

For now, 100 amps to the barn, and enough breakers and outlets to handle anything I want, in moderation.

I think I will go with a 2/0, 2/0, 2/0 aluminum URD line in conduit, with a bare wire 8 thhn copper ground running in conduit as well. That should get the job done.

Thanks everyone!

R

Hancock I am very aware of That. Like hugely aware of it.

I've also repulled feeders and dug up pipe all over Texas motor speedway because they used aluminum and it fails over time. Period end of story. Anyone who ignores that fact is either a ignoring facts, b hasn't seen it happen.

We are pulling aluminium in large data centers now but that is primarily because the tempatures are regulated so heavily.

Current code REQUIRES 4 cables (separate neutral and ground and isolated in the panel)as Hancock mentioned, and ground cable can only be 1 step smaller than the other 3.
DONT' shortcut on any of this - think of what it will take to dig it all back up once ANYBODY discovers it was done in 2017 not up to 2017 code!

I would also plan for a 'in breaker panel whole house type' surge protector install in subpanel, and a SEPARATE copper ground wire running to double ground rods JUST outside of the shop for it. FIRST time that all-metal shop gets hit with lightning, you DONT want it following route back to house FRYING everything.

IF it were me, I'd put in 4 strand aluminum cable , and go with stuff thats rated for 200 amp, even though you set it up for 100 amp. Cost is only a tiny bit more to 200a cable vs 100a cable (aluminium).

I haven't read the entire thread but I do control systems and electrical in the industrial field. I highly recommend having a 200amp service installed by your power company. You'll want to have the capability of 200amp and not worry about overloading your house.

Okay, let me put it this way... to add a 2nd pole, with the electrical company, I would have to pay about... 8000-9000 dollars.

Since the entire house (2800 sq ft) does not use 100 amps, that seems like a waste.

To run a 200 amp service from the house would mean ... ok, wait, I would have to upgrade the house to 400 amps. That would run about 2000, IF the cable to the house is rated for 400 amps, which I am not sure it is, and THEN, the monthly bill would be about $150-$250 more a month, basic.

Now, again.. this is for a 2800 sq ft house that does not have more than the A/C (16 seer) and heat pump, plus 1 electric oven that is used 1-2 times a month since I have 2 other gas ovens, and a dryer that run off the house.... the lights are about 90% LED.

So, 100 amps is fine.

Also, running a 1/0 underground in 2" conduit has a rating of 135 amps. (the cable is rated at 115 but in an underground conduit it goes up to 135). I am running 2/0 underground. It has a rating of 135, 150 in the conduit. The breaker is a 100 amp breaker....It will not even FIT a 4/0 aluminum line, but even if it did, it is only 100 amps.. there is no logical reason no matter the cost, to put a 200 amp aluminum line in on a 100 amp breaker that cannot hold a 200 amp aluminum line. To use that, I would have to swap out the entire house breaker box to a different style breaker box that would handle a 100 amp breaker with wire that size.

So, while I greatly appreciate all the input, when people ask for advice on what to use, you need to think of what they have, what will fit, the cost vs the cost of explaining to the wife you spent 11k on the barn but want to spent almost that much running 2 times the electricity your house uses to it....

Thank you for the ideas. I got it now. I am using 3 lines of 2/0 for the pull and a 8 gauge thhn bare copper to the main for the ground. I have learned a LOT listening to you guys, and I appreciate it all, I really do.. but what I am using will work and implying anything else is personal opinion.

THAT SAID, however, Oak, you bring up a goof point... I may just go ahead and add a grounding rod as well, just to be safe. 12 bucks.. well worth the comfort of knowing it is there.

Russ

I would ground the metal building to it. Lightning needs a good path to ground.

I did not install my ground rod immediately. I use the 3 wire ungrounded for years. Then one day I touched the garage door and started digging. I'm on rock so my 8' rod went in a trench with some rock salt. No more garage door wake up calls since.

lol! that would make me dig too

I would have used direct burial aluminum and be done with it. But I only have 45 years experience so what do I know.....

Well, Sam.. ol buddy.. you can use that direct bury if ya like. I looked at that as an option, I just tend to look at all the options and, like I have said many times... you ask a single question and you can and will get 50 different ways of doing it.

So, no-one said your 45 years does not count for anything, but some days a person just has to go with what meets their needs.

And, since what I chose is still a solid setup, goes above my needs easily.. it's okay that I chose to go this route... really.. it is.

So.. I am going to my ranch tonight.. and I shall drink a beer in honor of all you fine gentlemen and hope you all do the same

R

word!

I used to work with a guy long ago, and he is still my old friend. I'd ask him, 'Jim, we got a real problem here, what would you do about it?' He'd tell me a good way and I'd say, 'OK, let's do something else then.'

Got him every time, he'd spit and cuss a little, and then we'd do as he suggested. I was the boss.

lol! Well, I listen a lot to you guys. I just also listen to what momma will let me spend, so I find what is safe...upgrade that a little to be extra safe.. then upgrade it more to fit the budget.

That way I can upgrade the heck out of other things if I want to :P
R

Sounds like you got it then. Sorry for my late and maybe unwanted reply.....heck I'll share a cold one with you too !! When the water in the conduit breaks down the insulation of your wire and your re-pulling those conductors.....remember what old Sam said

Never "unwanted" Sam-meister.. heh... just ribbin ya

I am willing to bet the wires et al outlive the both of us... here's to hopin it is so!

I think I'll be fine, but here's to not letting anyone know if I ain't! lol

R

No prob !! I know it will out live me......so your good to go......with a few extra dollars in your pocket. Was brought up in the field my Dad was a contractor for over 50 years in Dallas. I remember once he was constructing an out building and he buryed some metal copper MC cable about a foot under ground. I asked him about it........and that was exactly his comment " it'll outlive me" and you'll be the one to fix it. You know that iwas over 30 years ago and we replaced it 2 years ago. So I'd say your good to go.....