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Thermal Scope Video Quality with Mark II #6771577 05/22/17 08:22 PM
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DocHorton Offline OP
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I have an IR Hunter Mark II and the video it produces is terrible compared to what I see through the scope. Also, the videos I see some of the other guys post look way better than what I get using the same scope or other scopes with similar resolution.

I use a high quality SD card and the UNV MDVR. Any ideas why the video quality is so poor?

Re: Thermal Scope Video Quality with Mark II [Re: DocHorton] #6771617 05/22/17 09:00 PM
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It would help if you posted one of your videos.

First of all, the video quality IS going to be less on the video OUT than what you see through the scope. That is the way the electronics are setup up.

Second, some of the scopes will allow you to have video out at 30 hz and the machine is designed for video out at 60 hz and if yours will let you do it, then typically the video looks like crap.

Third, you may have a crappy video cable.


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Re: Thermal Scope Video Quality with Mark II [Re: DocHorton] #6771677 05/22/17 09:50 PM
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I know the video quality is going to be slightly worse, but take a look on IG and look at UNV's videos. They are amazingly clear and they use the same scope for a lot of their videos. Here's one I took last weekend. I always keep it on 60 Hz. The cable I use is the one UNV sent me with the unit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1Pp6dpeDyQ

Here's one from a couple months ago....again, terrible quality, grainy and very pixelated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhHDBVWh_HY

And here's a video on my Pulsar XD50A, the video quality is better and it's half the resolution.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQuRfvnExbY

Re: Thermal Scope Video Quality with Mark II [Re: DocHorton] #6771701 05/22/17 10:16 PM
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I'll let you in on the "trick".....the really clear videos that you see like the ones UNV post, are not recorded via the MDVR. Instead they are using a camera adapter on the eyepiece and recording that way so you get a much cleaner and clearer image than you get when you record via the video out port on the MKII. Someone actually asked them about this on Instagram last week and they confirmed that's how their videos are so clear.

I didn't have my eyepiece adapter with me and I was doing a side by side demo of the Trail XP50 and MKII. I had to use the MDVR for the MKII and the quality was ok but it was not near as good as what you see while looking through the scope. It was by no means a fair comparison to show someone the footage from the MKII vs the Trail because the videos didn't do justice to the MKII quality. Even the Trail video quality is downgraded when it's recorded internally but it's still MUCH better than other scopes when an external recorder and cables are used.

And to be clear, this isn't a slam on the MDVR, because I use it personally and sell a lot of them. It's the best external recorder on the market for NV but the video quality is just limited by the technology.

So the short answer is, use an eyepiece adapter if you want movie quality video. Otherwise, it isn't going to happen with the external recorders.

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Re: Thermal Scope Video Quality with Mark II [Re: DocHorton] #6771782 05/22/17 11:35 PM
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DocHorton the video titled " The Whole Family " says a lot. My guess is that something is failing in the BAE TWV640 core of your unit. The UNV recorder never lost sync and the reticle as well as the battery voltage indicator overlays stayed rock solid. That random course pixelation of the processed sensor data is way odd. The video output signal comes directly from the BAE core unit. I would send Trijicon an email along with that specific video to describe your video output issue and have them take notice of the 4 or so dead pixels shown in the video so they can be repaired. I would love to know how they respond to this issue.


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Re: Thermal Scope Video Quality with Mark II [Re: DocHorton] #6771788 05/22/17 11:40 PM
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On all scopes the video quality is going to be less than what the viewfinder is.


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Re: Thermal Scope Video Quality with Mark II [Re: DocHorton] #6771837 05/23/17 12:21 AM
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Jason, Thanks for the info. I don't understand why the external recorder video is so [censored] compared to the viewfinder. Shouldn't it be an exact replica of what you are seeing?

When I record a video on my phone and then send that video to someone else, the quality is the same.

It's unreal how terrible it is...like I mentioned, the Pulsar XD50 video is way better and that scope has much lower resolution.

Re: Thermal Scope Video Quality with Mark II [Re: TXGH] #6771840 05/23/17 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted By: jtprocaddie
On all scopes the video quality is going to be less than what the viewfinder is.


Wow a profound statement


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Re: Thermal Scope Video Quality with Mark II [Re: thermal time] #6771841 05/23/17 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted By: thermal time
DocHorton the video titled " The Whole Family " says a lot. My guess is that something is failing in the BAE TWV640 core of your unit. The UNV recorder never lost sync and the reticle as well as the battery voltage indicator overlays stayed rock solid. That random course pixelation of the processed sensor data is way odd. The video output signal comes directly from the BAE core unit. I would send Trijicon an email along with that specific video to describe your video output issue and have them take notice of the 4 or so dead pixels shown in the video so they can be repaired. I would love to know how they respond to this issue.


I'll see what I can find out. Thanks for the idea.

Re: Thermal Scope Video Quality with Mark II [Re: DocHorton] #6772123 05/23/17 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted By: DocHorton
Jason, Thanks for the info. I don't understand why the external recorder video is so [censored] compared to the viewfinder. Shouldn't it be an exact replica of what you are seeing?

When I record a video on my phone and then send that video to someone else, the quality is the same.

It's unreal how terrible it is...like I mentioned, the Pulsar XD50 video is way better and that scope has much lower resolution.


I agree Doc but what you have is a lot of possibilities of why it's so bad. I'm sure I'll leave something out but I'll try to hit a few of the more obvious/likely problems and some of this is speculation.

1) We don't know what the quality is of the video feed that IR Defense is sending to the video out port on the scope. This could 95% of the problem and I highly suspect it is. You've got a beautiful crisp image in the viewfinder but if IRD is taking that video stream and greatly decreasing the quality before it hits the video out port, there is nothing that any video recorder can do to make that image look good. Want to find out if that is the problem? Find a way to hook up the MKII to your big screen HDTV and see what the quality of the live video looks like. If it looks really nice, sharp, crisp and no grain, then we've ruled that problem out. Either way, I think I can say with a pretty strong assurance, whatever the video quality is that's being sent to the video out port, it's definitely not the same as what's the user sees through the viewfinder.

Also, the next logical question is, why would they downgrade the video before sending it to the video out port? One reason is because it would likely use a larger amount of system resources and processing power to supply the video out port with the same full quality feed that the viewfinder is seeing. That's just one possible reason.

2) Anytime you physically cut an analog video stream and then reconnect it using physical connectors, there is going to be some video quality loss. For every connector introduced, the quality is going to downgrade some. The old analog connectors like the 3.5mm stereo (headphone type) jacks and RCA connectors will definitely degrade the video quality a little bit as well. If you hook up a video cable directly to the IRD video out port, that's one connection and then you have another connect where the cable connects to the MDVR. Again, this isn't going to be a major problem but it could definitely be a small cause of some lack of video quality.

3) You are recording the video to an SD card. Again, this is a place for some downgrading of the quality to occur. I'm sure it's minor but coupled with the other 2 issues listed above, it's not helping the problem. We also don't know the exact process the MDVR uses when the video feed comes in. There are things that unit could do to unintentionally downgrade the video quality ever so slightly.

All in all, that's a whole lot of speculation but I've used the IRD units myself with the MDVR and seen exactly what you are talking about. I'm confident the issue is with the video stream quality that is coming out of the unit itself.

Sorry for the long rambling post, I hope that helps a little.


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Re: Thermal Scope Video Quality with Mark II [Re: DocHorton] #6772131 05/23/17 04:58 AM
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Oh just a couple more things I forgot to mention to address.

If you record a video on your phone, the manufacturer (let's say Apple for this discussion) has done everything they reasonably can to make sure the video you record looks as good as possible. They have good reason to, we use our phones for cameras as much as we use them for phones, so the image quality better dang well be good. They do all they can to make sure the image/video saved is as high quality as possible AND you've got a digital video and it's being recorded directly to the internal memory with no cables and no connections.On the IRD you've got a digital video being sent out of an analog cable. When you send your phone viedo to a friend, that same full size digital video file in it's originally recorded quality is usually what's sent, so when they get it and it plays, they are watching a video that is almost 100% identical to the video you originally recorded. It's not only a different process that's taking place, there are very intentional steps taking place to make sure that video looks as good on your friend's phone as it does yours.

When it comes to video recording on NV devices, up until now, it's just a been a secondary option that the manufacturer happen to throw in as a small bonus. Things are changing though and we are now seeing manufacturers focus on video recording as the consumers are beginning to demand it. The point is, things are only going to get better in the coming years.

Last, you mentioned that the MKII resolution is twice that of the old XD50 but the XD50's video quality was way better. That just goes to show what I was trying to get at in my long winded rambling post above. smile The XD50 was sending out a much higher quality video stream than the IRD OR the cable was just that much better....and I know that's highly unlikely because there isn't even a direct connect MDVR cable for the old Apex's. You've got to use the Pulsar supplied pigtail that converts their proprietary connector into a standard RCA output and the MDVR cable connects to that. So you've got even more connections and cables than you do on the IRD units.\

I'm sure all of that is clear as mud.lol


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Re: Thermal Scope Video Quality with Mark II [Re: DocHorton] #6772555 05/23/17 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Jason, Thanks for the info. I don't understand why the external recorder video is so [censored] compared to the viewfinder. Shouldn't it be an exact replica of what you are seeing?


No, because you are not getting the the same video signal OUT as is being delivered to the internal screen according to the techies at IRD (now Trijicon).

Looking at your two videos, I believe you probably have the contrast turned UP. Turn the contrast down and your recorded image will be better.


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Re: Thermal Scope Video Quality with Mark II [Re: DocHorton] #6772613 05/23/17 06:07 PM
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Only luck I've had with good video is through the scope on the IRD / Trijicon units. The only reliable method I've found is with the mod armory iPhone mount for a pvs-14. It's awkward but it works. Otherwise the quality is lost tremendously in the cable.


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Re: Thermal Scope Video Quality with Mark II [Re: Double Naught Spy] #6772642 05/23/17 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted By: Double Naught Spy
Quote:
Jason, Thanks for the info. I don't understand why the external recorder video is so [censored] compared to the viewfinder. Shouldn't it be an exact replica of what you are seeing?


No, because you are not getting the the same video signal OUT as is being delivered to the internal screen according to the techies at IRD (now Trijicon).

Looking at your two videos, I believe you probably have the contrast turned UP. Turn the contrast down and your recorded image will be better.


It's a shame the software doesn't transmit in the same quality.

I actually have the contrast turned down very low...it's on about the 3rd or 4th click from the left.

Even some of the other videos you and others have posted on THF using the same scope look better than mine.

Re: Thermal Scope Video Quality with Mark II [Re: MDMORROW] #6772647 05/23/17 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: MDMORROW
Only luck I've had with good video is through the scope on the IRD / Trijicon units. The only reliable method I've found is with the mod armory iPhone mount for a pvs-14. It's awkward but it works. Otherwise the quality is lost tremendously in the cable.


What recorder do you have mounted? Are you shooting while looking through the scope or looking at the recorder?

Re: Thermal Scope Video Quality with Mark II [Re: DocHorton] #6772722 05/23/17 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted By: DocHorton
Originally Posted By: MDMORROW
Only luck I've had with good video is through the scope on the IRD / Trijicon units. The only reliable method I've found is with the mod armory iPhone mount for a pvs-14. It's awkward but it works. Otherwise the quality is lost tremendously in the cable.


What recorder do you have mounted? Are you shooting while looking through the scope or looking at the recorder?


iPhone 4 and yes shooting that way. It doesn't work that great though but that's the only way to get decent video through the scope that I know of. TNVC sells a go pro adapter for a PVS 14 that works with the reap, does not work with the MK2/3. I haven't bought it yet and don't really plan to.


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Re: Thermal Scope Video Quality with Mark II [Re: DocHorton] #6772843 05/23/17 10:27 PM
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Quote:
I actually have the contrast turned down very low...it's on about the 3rd or 4th click from the left.


Not low enough. It needs to be in the first or second position. By the third position, you will notice a significant


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Re: Thermal Scope Video Quality with Mark II [Re: DocHorton] #6772845 05/23/17 10:29 PM
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I like my reap on like the first or second contrast spot myself.


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