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#6768736 - 05/19/17 12:15 PM If you have ever trained a dog before...
HuntersAnonymous41 Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 09/26/16
Posts: 131
Loc: Central Texas
Happy Friday everyone. Yesterday I went to see one of the pups at Best Retrievers in Paige, TX to check up on how he was doing and get a feel for their training methods. He is moving on to the advance program here in the next week which means he switches trainers and I wanted to make sure I wasn't skipping a beat by meeting with the current trainer before he moved on. Wow was I in for a treat though. I have always grown up around working dogs all my life; mostly coon, rabbit, and hog dogs in Louisiana but really got into bird dogs within the last few years. I have a lot to learn when it comes to training a working bird dog in the field. I guess i have always been spoiled around people who already had working bird dogs but am now really getting a feel for what it all takes having a pup of my own now.
Within this last year I have started to feel that it takes a lot more to work and train a bird/retrieving dog compared to a tracker or hound. I do not mean any insult with this post. Just something that I have personally started to feel here recently going through this process. What are y'all opinions when it comes to training working dogs.
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*BLLM* Black Labs Lives Matter. Point&Shoot. Conserve&Protect. Hunt&Gather

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#6768749 - 05/19/17 12:39 PM Re: If you have ever trained a dog before... [Re: HuntersAnonymous41]
Texas Dan Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 12369
Genetics mean everything. If it's their blood, they pick it up naturally. If not, they never will.
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Dan,

Spring, Texas

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#6768787 - 05/19/17 01:27 PM Re: If you have ever trained a dog before... [Re: HuntersAnonymous41]
HuntersAnonymous41 Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 09/26/16
Posts: 131
Loc: Central Texas
Yeah couldn't agree more. I was more thinking outside of genetics and drive. Of course it is impossible without drive but even with drive training is key to fine tune those habits when in the field. I hope that makes sense
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*BLLM* Black Labs Lives Matter. Point&Shoot. Conserve&Protect. Hunt&Gather

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#6768890 - 05/19/17 03:03 PM Re: If you have ever trained a dog before... [Re: Texas Dan]
sallysue Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 02/21/06
Posts: 2799
Loc: Belton Tx
Originally Posted By: Texas Dan
Genetics mean everything. If it's their blood, they pick it up naturally. If not, they never will.
Man aint that true My gal is a natural


Edited by sallysue (05/19/17 03:03 PM)

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#6768903 - 05/19/17 03:16 PM Re: If you have ever trained a dog before... [Re: HuntersAnonymous41]
Texas Dan Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 12369
I also believe that genetics are critical in avoiding dogs with undesired behaviors. IMO, a dog is never broke from a behavior that exists in his/her genetics. You can put a shock collar on them until Hell freezes over and the tendency will still be there. Pit bulls are a good example.
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Dan,

Spring, Texas

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#6768911 - 05/19/17 03:21 PM Re: If you have ever trained a dog before... [Re: HuntersAnonymous41]
HuntersAnonymous41 Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 09/26/16
Posts: 131
Loc: Central Texas
Definitely Texas Dan! Yesterday with my retriever we were going through everything from the hip swing to listening and comprehending hand signals given, and running a mark. Good genes usually are the make or break of a dog but it amazes me all the work that goes into it beyond that. There has not only been a learning curve for my pup but for me as well. A lot goes into training a great dog and I am sure we can all agree on that. They can have the genetics but they have to be tailored!
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*BLLM* Black Labs Lives Matter. Point&Shoot. Conserve&Protect. Hunt&Gather

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#6769672 - 05/20/17 02:14 PM Re: If you have ever trained a dog before... [Re: HuntersAnonymous41]
BradyBuck Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 10/18/07
Posts: 5523
Loc: Abilene, TX
Some things are genetic. Desire to retrieve is genetic and can be enhanced. You use these genetic traits to teach dogs to do certain things. A retriever is not naturally steady. They do not naturally sit on a whistle and turn to look at you. They don't naturally take a cast at 100 yards away. It takes a lot of time and effort but they must like to do the work or it's much tougher. You may eventually get there but it won't be fun for you or the dog.



Edited by BradyBuck (05/20/17 02:15 PM)

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#6771252 - 05/22/17 10:05 AM Re: If you have ever trained a dog before... [Re: HuntersAnonymous41]
triggerbowtx Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 165
I agree with BradyBuck. I think the original question is asking if retrievers take more time to be trained than other dogs? And the simple answer is "it depends on what you expect from your dog."

In general, a well bred Labrador will have some desire to retrieve. That is natural. Or a cattle dog to have some innate abilities. You can have a great Labrador that gets every bird when hunting that doesn't have that much training. However in retriever training, especially at the advanced levels, it is much more than just your average working dog. There is A LOT that goes into it. There is a big difference in a "meat dog" and a dog training for competitive events. Both dogs can be wonderful animals, it's just a different standard and more advanced training.

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#6771418 - 05/22/17 12:40 PM Re: If you have ever trained a dog before... [Re: HuntersAnonymous41]
catslayer Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 12/11/12
Posts: 1017
Loc: Straight out of Johnson County
My question is... with comp dogs, outside of comp, do you ever really USE those tools?


Edited by catslayer (05/22/17 12:40 PM)
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#6771485 - 05/22/17 02:02 PM Re: If you have ever trained a dog before... [Re: catslayer]
Leonardo Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 01/03/08
Posts: 4881
Loc: Wise County
Originally Posted By: catslayer
My question is... with comp dogs, outside of comp, do you ever really USE those tools?


I hunt mine every year.

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#6771488 - 05/22/17 02:03 PM Re: If you have ever trained a dog before... [Re: HuntersAnonymous41]
jeffro3967 Offline
Light Foot

Registered: 08/27/13
Posts: 27
Loc: Spring Branch, TX
My dog was trained at Best retrievers also, and yes, I have used her "tools" many times in the field. Blind retrieves are pretty common when hunting with multiple guns and a well trained comp dog can easily pick those up. That's not to say all competitive dogs are good hunters, but with good genetics and quality training you can have the best of both worlds. Getting a retriever that handles smoothly in the field doesn't happen over night, and some definitely take longer than others but the end result is a great hunting partner for many years to come.

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#6771597 - 05/22/17 03:41 PM Re: If you have ever trained a dog before... [Re: triggerbowtx]
HuntersAnonymous41 Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 09/26/16
Posts: 131
Loc: Central Texas
triggerbowtx, Yes, I think you understood what I was getting at and I couldn't agree more. up am quickly learning through these experiences that there is defiantly a big difference between a dog with good drive and a dog that has the drive and has been given the time and finely tuned.


Edited by HuntersAnonymous41 (05/22/17 03:43 PM)
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*BLLM* Black Labs Lives Matter. Point&Shoot. Conserve&Protect. Hunt&Gather

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#6771604 - 05/22/17 03:49 PM Re: If you have ever trained a dog before... [Re: HuntersAnonymous41]
HuntersAnonymous41 Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 09/26/16
Posts: 131
Loc: Central Texas
I have trained a lot of coons dogs and blood trackers in my lifetime growing up in Louisiana but have found it more extensive and in dept training good bird dogs or retrievers through my recent experiences and research.
_________________________
*BLLM* Black Labs Lives Matter. Point&Shoot. Conserve&Protect. Hunt&Gather

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#6771865 - 05/22/17 07:40 PM Re: If you have ever trained a dog before... [Re: catslayer]
Birdhunter61 Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 396
Originally Posted By: catslayer
My question is... with comp dogs, outside of comp, do you ever really USE those tools?


When you field hunt, geese and ducks, you often see "sailors", which can land several hundred yards from the spread. Most "pure" hunting dogs won't go that far for a retrieve. Most "competitive " dogs will.

Robby

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#6772071 - 05/22/17 10:16 PM Re: If you have ever trained a dog before... [Re: Birdhunter61]
bobcat1 Online   content
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 07/22/07
Posts: 2512
Loc: Sanger, Texas
I started with meat dogs and then I switched to train trial dogs when bird populations were bad in the mid to late 90's. Takes a lot more polish if you want to place in trials. I am now back to meat dogs with my cockers but they will be polished too by the time they are finished. cheers
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Bobby Barnett


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