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#6748291 - 04/27/17 09:07 PM 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared
FiremanJG Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 20898
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
This debate pops up quite often.

I've hand loaded, and shot all three cartridges for many rounds, and have tons of friends that do the same. I currently use, and shoot all three. I showed a customer this comparison last weekend. This is just talking the common short actions. The 6.5 Creedmoor and the .260 Remington make the same ballistics, so I'm lumping them together. I input muzzle velocities based on the maximum performance I've been able to safely achieve out of the cartridges. And these numbers are all based on a 24" barrel. Numbers would have to be adjusted based on shorter barrels. Every caliber is loaded with a Hornady ELD-X high BC hunting bullet, to keep things on the same playing field. G-7 ballistic coefficient is input based on Hornady's published BC. jbmballistics.com is the calculator. Wind drift and energy deliver is all that I am reporting. Elevation is easily corrected for. Wind is based on a 5 mph at 3 or 9 o'clock to the shot direction, and reported in Mils. If you want to use MOA, multiply these values by 3.43. I am not, again, advocating long range game animal shooting. But these numbers probably matter for someone that hates to let a feral hog or a coyote get a pass.

6.5mm
143 gr. ELD-X
G-7 BC .314
MV 2800 fps

100 yards 0 wind, 2245 ft/ lbs.
200 yards .1 wind, 2013 ft/ lbs.
300 yards .2 wind, 1800 ft/ lbs.
400 yards .3 wind, 1605 ft/ lbs.
500 yards .4 wind, 1428 ft/ lbs.
600 yards .5 wind, 1266 ft/ lbs.
700 yards .6 wind, 1119 ft/ lbs.
800 yards .7 wind, 984 ft/ lbs.
900 yards .8 wind, 862 ft/ lbs.
1000 yards .9 wind, 751 ft/ lbs.

7mm-08
162 gr. ELD-X
G-7 BC .318
MV 2750 fps

100 yards, 0 wind, 2455 ft/ lbs.
200 yards, .1 wind, 2206 ft/ lbs.
300 yards, .2 wind, 1970 ft/ lbs.
400 yards, .3 wind, 1758 ft/ lbs.
500 yards, .4 wind, 1565 ft/ lbs.
600 yards, .5 wind, 1388 ft/ lbs.
700 yards, .6 wind, 1227 ft/ lbs.
800 yards, .7 wind, 1080 ft/ lbs.
900 yards, .8 wind, 946 ft/ lbs.
1000 yards, .9 wind, 825 ft/ lbs.

.308 Winchester
178 gr. ELD-X
G-7 BC .278
MV 2700 fps

100 yards, .1 wind, 2559 ft/ lbs.
200 yards, .2 wind, 2256 ft/ lbs.
300 yards, .3 wind, 1982 ft/ lbs.
400 yards, .4 wind, 1736 ft/ lbs.
500 yards, .5 wind, 1514 ft/ lbs.
600 yards, .6 wind, 1314 ft/ lbs.
700 yards, .7 wind, 1134 ft/ lbs.
800 yards, .9 wind, 972 ft/ lbs.
900 yards, 1.0 wind, 828 ft/ lbs.
1000 yards, 1.2 wind, 700 ft/ lbs.

What's the Cliff's notes?

The 6.5mm and the 7mm both do significantly better in the wind. Remember, those are 5 mph wind values. If it were 7-8 mph, add 50% to those holds. If it were a 10 mph wind, double those holds.

Energy delivery, well the good ole' .308 Win does a great job, and beats both the 6.5mm and the 7mm out to 300 yards.

At 400, 500, 600 & 700 yards the winning order is:
7mm-08
.308
6.5 mm

At 800, 900, and 1000 yards the winning order is:
7mm-08
6.5mm
.308

Of course there are many factors to choose one over the other. If a person is not a hand loader, two of the three are most likely going to shoot match grade, small, with mass produced ammo, and those being the 6.5 Creedmoor and the .308 Winchester. But they both will probably have lower speeds than what these values were based on. Rifle chambering availability is also a factor, of course. But if a guy is going to build a custom, or semi-custom rifle AND he is a hand loader he can make the rile do what ever he wants. Shorten the barrel, lose velocity, gain maneuverability. The end user has to decide. All three of these can be chambered in an AR platform, which will also reduce velocity. I call it the gas-gun tax. Then the other option of bullet weight can be adjusted for that platform. For instance I have a 16" barrel (6" less than these test subjects) AR platform .308 Win. Because I was going to be hurting for velocity, I switched over to a 155 gr bullet, and strayed from my normal H-Varget powder. Chad recommended a change in powder to gain velocity, and it worked. I managed to eek out 2600 fps MV out of a suppressed 16" AR, safely. But in order to post every possible combination of cartridge, bullet weight, and barrel length would dictate more time than I'm willing to give it. wink

This is maximum performance I've obtained from bolt action 24" barrels. Just as an example of what each can do. Rule of thumb, for anyone wanting to compare numbers to shorter barrels, is 20-25 fps per inch of barrel cut off. Reduce the velocities based on the new barrel length.

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi
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#6748306 - 04/27/17 09:18 PM Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: FiremanJG]
Brother in-law Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 26030
up

I would like to see The same kind of review for the varmint/predator calibers with the Hornady bullets
223, 22250, 243, and the newer 6 creed in a 24" barrel

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#6748313 - 04/27/17 09:22 PM Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: Brother in-law]
FiremanJG Online   content
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Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 20898
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Cause quite a swing depending on bullet weight in those little ones. Or are you just meaning max performance, like these are?
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#6748341 - 04/27/17 09:42 PM Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: FiremanJG]
Gone to Texas Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 07/05/13
Posts: 2639
Loc: Hurst
Great write up, thanks!

I'm loving my 7mm-08 and don't see a reason to change anytime soon.
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#6748344 - 04/27/17 09:42 PM Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: FiremanJG]
Brother in-law Offline
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Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 26030
Same kinda comparison with 75 amax for the 2 .22's and probably 105's for the other 2
Maybe include 55 grainers also with the .22s
That would cover about 10 million common questions amongst the most popular calibers

Then, you could do one for the most common magnums and a couple of new nosler mags

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#6748369 - 04/27/17 09:56 PM Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: Brother in-law]
FiremanJG Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 20898
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
I know where to dig up reported velocities, and average them. It'll take a few weeks, but can do.
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#6748376 - 04/27/17 10:00 PM Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: FiremanJG]
KRoyal Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 01/24/07
Posts: 14640
Loc: Sherman/North of Dallas
I was just looking at 308 velocities for short barrels and ran across this link below. He shot all the way down to 6" 308 ended up ripping his front back, blew his AICS mag to pieces, and broke his bipod rofl that's crazy.

He did 26" down to 16.5" on another post and also did the same with 223.

Won't be doing the 10" 308 even with the 147's you're down around 300BLK velocities.

http://rifleshooter.com/2016/02/308-winc...h-308-bolt-gun/


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#6748579 - 04/28/17 08:00 AM Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: FiremanJG]
dee Online   content
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Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 4988
Loc: Red River way
The little ole 7mm gets under appreciated so often. It's a shame as it works pretty well.

Funny thing is even though the energy difference is miniscule there is a noticeable in the way the steel acts when hit.
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#6748663 - 04/28/17 09:23 AM Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: Brother in-law]
FishKiller Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 133
Loc: Weatherford, TX
Originally Posted By: Brother in-law
up

I would like to see The same kind of review for the varmint/predator calibers with the Hornady bullets
223, 22250, 243, and the newer 6 creed in a 24" barrel


Lets go ahead and toss the .220 Swift in that comparison too.

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#6748669 - 04/28/17 09:32 AM Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: FiremanJG]
pdugas Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 06/11/12
Posts: 212
Loc: somewhere down da bayou
Good info. I have hunted deer with all 3. I prefer the 7mm08 on deer size game. It's my favorite caliber and has been far a while.

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#6748701 - 04/28/17 10:06 AM Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: FiremanJG]
Jgraider Offline
Tracker

Registered: 06/13/15
Posts: 557
Loc: West Texas
Interesting information. The 7-08 is very underrated and always has been IMO. Bullets are far more important that head stamps though, so I always consider what I'm shooting at first.

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#6748734 - 04/28/17 10:40 AM Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: dee]
BOBO the Clown Offline
decoy

Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 42272
Loc: Metroplex
Originally Posted By: dee
The little ole 7mm gets under appreciated so often. It's a shame as it works pretty well.

Funny thing is even though the energy difference is miniscule there is a noticeable in the way the steel acts when hit.


Randy Newberg's go to on elk and mulie's.

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#6748739 - 04/28/17 10:44 AM Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: FiremanJG]
Texan Til I Die Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 1900
Loc: Central Texas
The two places I shoot most often run north - south. At one I'm shooting from north to south and at the other it's south to north. I almost never have a 90* or 270* wind direction to gather dope from.

I've got one limited data set on my 260 (143 ELD-X @ 2825 fps) with 10 mph average wind (with some gusts) from 270*
400 - L 0.6 mils
500 - L 0.9 mils

I also have one set on the same day same wind on my 308 (168 AMax @ 2650 fps)
300 - L 0.3 mils
400 - L 0.9 mils
500 - L 1.1 mils
600 - L 0.8 mils (wind reduced to 5 mph)

Just some real world data to throw into the discussion...
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#6748743 - 04/28/17 10:48 AM Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: FiremanJG]
WileyCoyote Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/01/04
Posts: 5060
Loc: The Dogwood Capital of Texas
GTK info for sure, even at closer ranges. Thx for the effort in pulling out the data.
Ron
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#6748770 - 04/28/17 11:09 AM Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: Jgraider]
FiremanJG Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 20898
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Originally Posted By: Jgraider
Bullets are far more important that head stamps though, so I always consider what I'm shooting at first.


No doubt.

This was simply comparing today's common head stamps. Sure we could add 6.5X55, 7X57, and so on. This was just saying that these particular bullets can do, at these particular muzzle velocities.
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