Very true. That's why I use a 223.

Now you done it

When I was growing up, I was told that if you couldn't handle the recoil of an actual deer hunting round, it helps to put kerosene around the outsides of your shoes. That keeps the sugar ants from crawling up your legs and biting you in the butt.

Pretty much anything will take down a deer, even a Kia.
So yeah, you can kill a deer with a 300BO.

They are sooo illusive around here, a 16oz claw-hammer would work....

If you want a low recoiling round with the trajectory of a thrown rock, what's wrong with the .357, .44 special, 44-40, 38-40 or 25-35?

My 300blkout bolt is all i hunt deer with now. Usi g barnes tripleshok i had complete passthru and deer ran 30yds blew out both ribs and the lungs looked like a bomb went off. Not much different results than my 7 mag. But not shooting subs at deer still... might as well try and head shoot it while your at it

Hell no. The retained energy at 200 yards is pathetic.

Same bullet, 220 ELD X, from a 300 WinMag....

I agree with most its silly to think about or attempt for no reason... but on the other hand it retains a large amount of its velocity and energy down range. Essentially it will kill anything at 200 yards equally as well as it did at the muzzle... as long as you can put the bullet where you need it to go. Not something I would do, but I bet the experienced long range shooters here could pull it off with ease if they put their minds to it.

I have to ask why? Why shoot a $4 per round subsonic load when you can do the same with at least a half dozen different air rifles for .25$ a round. Actually, probably should be illegal if air rifles are prohibited ? There really is very little difference.

Yea you're right, it generally was regarded as a ladies and kid caliber. Now days people want to use .223 for everything, must be a millennial thing.

I was raised to hunt a certain way, with making an ethical kill and not wounding the animal being priority #1. A bruised shoulder on me is better than a deer running around with an infected wound or worse.

I am not a millennial and I use a 223. I haven't had a deer running around with any infections probably since this millennial thing started. I don't get bruised shoulders so I am not scared of my rifle so I don't make bad shots like a lot of folks that think they need a big rifle do.

Do they make a "Indian Popcorn"?

If you're a man and you can't handle the recoil of a .243 at the least, then you are not man enough to hunt in my opinion. I'm sure you're a real great shot, congrats. But don't act like using a .223 is the norm, or is some kind of great hunting round...because its not. It's a small, flat shooting but weak round. That's a fact, Jack. It has wounded WAY more animals and/or resulted in lost animals than not.

Here you go guys. Now this is a stock gun but the energy created is very similar to what is being discussed.

Not that you feel it when hunting but I always found the push from a .270 or something similar to be sort of satisfying

You just called a lot of MEN that I respect greatly not man enough to hunt. The caliber one uses to hunt in no way bears on what kind of MAN they are.

My grandfather never shot more than a 243 and killed many deer with far less. I know many people who are far from millennials that use 22 hornets 222's and 223's for deer rifles. To make that statement lacks thought.

So since you seem to know everything about hunting. Them bow hunters must really be wimps if they can't even handle the recoil of a 22.

Cool. Still doesn't mean I respect the way they hunt. Using a 22 hornet on a deer is idiotic and selfish, same goes for a .223. Let me rephrase that, If you're a man and can't handle the recoil of a .243 at the least, I do not respect your hunting skills. Now if you're a woman or child, that's a different story, but in my opinion you still shouldn't use anything less than a .243 on a deer, its unethical.

Side Rant: WHY IN GODS WORLD, Would someone use a .22 hornet on a deer? Explain this to me? Anytime I hear someone using something like this on a deer, I automatically think they are idiots. There's always that guy in camp that think's he is Davy Crocket gonna prove everone how badass he is with his .22 hornet, makes me think they aren't very smart to be honest.



This is not good logic. Obviously I'm not talking about bow hunters.

There are many forms of hunting. I know a lot of very manly men who hunt deer for meat with .222's.

A lot of guys, especially old timers, pot hunt with .22 center fires, including the .22 hornet


I've seen .22 centerfires fill up a lot of freezers, but never have I seen them fill up a wall, however

Sounds like Budward wants everyone to start using a 50bmg on deer if they can handle the recoil.... haha if it is ok for a kid to shoot a certain round, why is it not ok for a grown man? .223 is fine for deer with the right round and shot placement. It makes me wonder where all the people that only wounded these deer with a .223 are putting the shots??? like in the hind quarters or neck shots or what... a lung/vital shot will kill the deer within minutes unless they are using FMJ (which is worse than bad shot placement)

and for the air rifle, a friend of mine and his wife hunted an Asiatic water buffalo with an air rifle and she holds the record for it. it shoots a 50cal projectile over 1000fps and got 12" of penetration on the animals vitals. not any different than a bow, but like a bow shot placement is key

In my youth I knew a lot of tough, hard, old timers that grew up during the depression and killed many a deer with a 22. They would chuckle at the mere suggestion that a real man hunts with a lot of lead. And they'd have a good laugh about it while kicking your azz.

The oft quoted noble mantra of "wounding is cruel and irresposible, killing your quarry matters most" had to have been birthed in the mind of a closet snowflake with a peculiar fixation on the movie "Men who stare at Goats".

Unfortunately, I haven't mastered the art of killing an animal without wounding it first.

The logic isn't flawed. Obviously you aren't talking about bowhunters, or anything else for that matter that refutes the premise of your argument or exposes the hypocrisy of it.

Narrowmindedness and tunnel vision more often than not are the result of ignorance and/or inexperience. I'd be willing to bet that as a young man your experiences as a hunter and the mentors you hunted with had a narrowly defined perspective of hunting. Had you watched an elderly man consistently harvest a limit of quail by shooting the heads off the birds with a 22. or using that same 22 to harvest deer year after year, using the same method each time and passing on a shot when it wasnt feasable, would have opened your eyes and mind to the fact that learning to use the tools at your disposal and overcoming their limitations is a good lesson in self sufficiency,

Your way isnt the only way, to lable one "idiotic" for not conforming to your ideology is hypocrisy at its worst.

Closet snowflakes. They out themselves eventually.

I'm not picking a side, but comparing the killing power of a bow and a firearm are two totally different things.

a 2" broadhead cut thru the heart or lungs is very, very deadly. completely apples and oranges.


Secondly, I've killed my share of deer and pigs with a .22-250 and a .223. but they make bigger calibers for a reason.

if a .22 LR or .22 hornet was all a person needed then they would have stopped production right there.



a man I know real well has killed a pile of deer with his .22 hornet. he has a small acreage tract in the hill country and baits them up to 30-50 yards and heart shoots them, doesent have a problem. they run off a ways and he finds them


now, based on that logic, a .22 hornet is a fine deer gun. but bring him out of that scenario he is going to be severely handicapped compared to larger caliber rounds.


I think that's the point of the story.


These threads always get derailed with people defending the use of small caliber firearms by touting stories of their grandfathers uncles cousin who fed his family for 50 years with a .222 but when it comes down to it, that guy hunted the same property, same scenario year after year and wasn't upset to let a deer get away if he wasn't presented a perfect shot. it worked for him in certain scenarios. it would not work in the majority.


I've seen guys hauling skidloaders with ford rangers but that doesent' make it acceptable nor recommended