Certainly. But almost as certainly not like what is more common today with the growing use of the .223 for deer.

I hear your sentiment all the time. It's really just "shut up - live and let live". It's a nice thought, but I'm not going to remain silent with my opinions as both the game itself and the image of hunters as respectful stewards of game suffers. Honest debate and self-policing are hallmarks of any group that seeks to maintain acceptance in society at large. So I won't apologize for it.

We have a rule on our 100 section mule deer place, as dictated by the landowner....no AR's allowed for deer hunting, period. Not only do I agree with it, I applaud it. Hunter's can play Rambo at the range IMO, or on a varmint hunt.

NP, have you had your coffee this morning? If so may I recommend decaf? lol

Debate is a great thing and no one is asking you to apologize for speaking your mind. However, I know you don't think a larger caliber rifle makes up for lack of skill/experience/judgment a hunter should possess, do you? That is the point I was trying to make. Oh, I should have added bowhunters to may list in my post above. Dang it.

sounds good to me. why should i apologize for what i believe.

No, it doesn't.
But the point is this: those that know how to do a job are going to use the proper tool for the job. There are some poor carpenters who have the proper tools, but the carpenters who don't even know what the proper tools are - are almost always poor carpenters.

See the posts on here from ranchers/outfitters.

When the exceptions/outliers to the rule start to be cited as examples, it simply proves the rule.

Using an AR doesn't have to be "playing Rambo", and saying it does shows your thoughts of the rifle. As I said, for me the .223 isn't sufficient for my deer hunting, but that's not a knock on AR's, they are still a useful rifle for other things, and just because they aren't your cup of tea doesn't mean they are somehow "wrong", or just for the tacticool rambos.

There are actually lively debates on some predator forums on whether or not .223 is sufficient for coyotes, with lots of guys swearing off of them because of spinners and runners.

You don't need to. But you shouldn't insist that others do so either. The debate (with facts) will inform others - who will make their own decisions based on what facts are presented.

And some "facts" are not really facts. Pushing back on those makes me a bad guy to some, but that's the nature of debate. Nothing can make the .223 a good deer round IMO - because it's simply too light a cartridge, and many better options are available. The laws of physics can't be changed.

I'd say it says more about the thoughts about many who insist on using the rifle to deer hunt, not the rifle itself. I know almost no one who has a problem with using a .223 for varmints or even hogs. Varmints are smaller and hogs are hogs - they all need to go.

I could never make myself believe i needed an ar. i have a 12ga. pump for the house. i have 270,308, 30-30, 444. for deer, elk 22-250 for varmints, 22 for bs
many people like an ar and that is fine

Any AR (somehow this became a 223 debate) that shows up at our place throws up a red flag. It is a stereotype that I am hoping wears thin, but I have seen too many hunters useless with one.
Just go to the counter at Bass Pro or Academy and listen to the guys looking for an AR. They are all talking stories of mowing down pigs and deer like they are hunting the Taliban. And who really needs a second shot on a deer? If you do, just jack another shell in the chamber, people think this is not possible with a bolt gun. Heck my daughter has shot at a sounder of pigs so quickly with here 243 bolt gun that those listening from the camp house thought she had a semiauto.
I kill more pigs a year (about 60) with my bolt than the entire lease next to me does with their AR spray-and pray hunters. And boy do they get excited when they finally get one.
Sorry, the stereotype is out there. The black-gun craze has made for a new type of unrealistic hunters.

For the record, the AR is easiest rifle on which to mount night vision sights for varmint / hog hunting. This alone gives it a significant advantage over other rifle styles.

I will admit up front that I am prejudiced against hunting deer with an AR-style rife, especially in .223. My immediate mental image is a Rambo wannabe, not a real hunter. I have seen too many AR-bozos at the public range who scare me. Yes, it is fun to shoot, but I just can't think of it as a serious hunting rifle. I was introduced to the M-16 in Viet Nam, where the practice was spray-and-pray, trying to kill other humans. I can't translate that to one-shot-one-kill hunting. If a guy showed up at my lease with an AR, I would be a little uneasy.

All the excitement over "Modern Sporting Rifles" just turns me cold. It's nothing more than marketing hype to sell more product.

I am encouraged by the many replies I see on this topic. I was beginning to think I was the only person left who was not on the AR bandwagon. Flame me all you like; I won't respond. I'm just telling you how I feel about the subject.

To each his own. If an outfitter or landowner says no ARs allowed, that is their prerogative. I'm sure they have their reasons, and as a hunter, you can change guns, or look elsewhere. Your prerogative. If you own your own land, or are on a lease where your partners don't care, who am I to judge.

There are benefits to ARs, mainly light and easy to carry. I prefer my other rifles for deer, but certainly not going to fault anyone for choosing differently. Just don't be a knucklehead and spray and pray, or take ill-conceived shots.

And I think many here will agree, as you become a more seasoned hunter, it becomes more evident that there are probably better weapons for the task.

This is the paradox of hunting with an autoloader of any kind, not just an AR. Autoloaders are unexcelled for controlled shooting of multiple hogs and coyotes, but only an experienced and practiced rifleman is able to use the capability effectively. Because novices and intermediates wish to be perceived as more advanced than they are, they embrace the equipment and trappings of more experienced hunters.

Exactly what is happening with the LR craze too. Same phenomenon.

And the animals are ones paying the price for it.

Unfortunately, I couldn't agree with you more.

I will admit to a personal prejudice when I see a guy deer hunting with an AR. My first thought is that the guy probably has no idea what he's doing. I may be wrong in some cases, but of all the experienced deer hunters I personally know, not one uses an AR.

I never said they didn't have a place, or weren't useful for other things, or weren't fun to shoot, did I? I said they have no place on our deer leases, and they don't.

Agree 100%

I've got two ARs. One in .223/5.56 and the other in .308 Win. Both run on hand loads tuned to the rifle, therefore there is a solid chance they can shoot smaller than MOST of what hits the field during any season. But I view them as nothing more than a tool for a job, and a necessary evil. Just the same way I feel about a reciprocating saw. I hate to use it, but sometimes it's the right tool for the job. Force me to pick one platform to use on everything, forever, and it will be a bolt action. And yes, I can cycle and shoot very fast, and also make hits. But when the matter of a full sounder of hogs comes up, I want that LR-308 in my hands, and 20 rounds loaded. That's not what I want when whitetail, mule deer, or elk hunting.

I hunt a 106 section mule deer place. Laws should state if you hunt 99 sections or less you are allowed to use a AR but if its over that then no

Post up the facts that show long range hunters wound more animals than bow hunters. You are very quick to criticize hunters that don't hunt like you do. That's why you are all over this thread as well.

A lot of lumping stereo types all together in this thread. Assuming all ARs that are used for deer hunting are .223, wrong! Your a Rambo hunter if you use one, wrong! I've used one in 308 the last few seasons and it is a fabulous weapon for deer, hogs and anything else it shoots. I will challenge anyone in this thread to a shooting contest with bolt guns, semi, you name the rifle and let's see if I'm playing Rambo.

As a landowner you have the final say period. But I don't know why you wouldn't manage hunters any differently other than have them shoot their rifle and prove they are proficient and safe with it before allowing them to hunt with it. Requiring a minimum caliber to hunt deer with is not unreasonable.

Well stated Marc.

Rifle is not the problem it is the person behind it that creates the issue.

We don't have mule deer, only whitetails on our 107 section place, and we tend to judge the hunter by their actions, not his/her equipment, rifle, truck, camo pattern, cooler brand preference, etc...

I prefer my bolt guns for accuracy, but I had a PSG-1 that was plenty accurate, and our Sig 716 is plenty accurate for deer, and is also easily suppressed, optics changed, and offers very little recoil, which often makes for better shooting in the first place.

I'd rather have a competent hunting partner using a .223, than most that show up with the 300+P++P Rigby AI Express Superduper Magnum.