If someone wants to loan me a lead sled and some lead shot bags, I will do a test with some tuned hunting rifles for comparison.

nah won't happen bc then you might prove someone wrong haha

I agree. I also think the shooter can and should always work on his accuracy but without an accurate gun it won't do any good

That's a lot of weight IMO. I use a single, 25 lb weight.

After this discussion, I will likely do my own test to see if I can create at least a noticeable change in POI between a weighted and unweighted sled.

Of course this assumes my rifle and factory loads are consistent enough to produce good results.

$109-$399, that's the price of a lead sled, depending on model, at Midway USA.

In my opinion that money is better spent on loading components, or ammunition, and learning to shoot a rifle, steadily, and properly. Because that will be imprinted in your brain for the rest of your life. Once hunting, the lead sled is left at home, doing you no good.

One of my goals in life is to be able to shoot any rifle, anywhere, anytime, as well as the rifle can shoot. And it's not with a lead sled.

The question has already been answered.

This strikes a chord with me.

I read through this thread and a previous about this topic. I don't challenge the super experienced/talented shooters about it changing the POI. (I'm not one to argue with success)

For me, the lead sled is great for testing a new rifle, bore sighting/roughing in a scope install, or diagnosing a problem that crops up. I am NOT a precision shooter, so that sled instantly lets me put some very tightly grouped holes on paper - just to show me that the missed shots are all ME - and not my setup. Then it's back to my shoulder to find what I'm doing wrong. With more practice, I suspect that I could do the same thing with just sandbags.

Marc

What about for doing a ladder test or OCW?
Ya can always zero to your shooting style after ya know your bullets are flying as good as can be.

Nevermind. Overthinking.

I use a tripod up front and bags on back sighting in. I shoot deer and pigs with or without a rest.

Yes, you absolutely can.

"Calling the shot" is down the list of things to do, shooting a rifle. It is a memory of what happened a second ago. It is saying where the reticle was (or the irons) when the shot broke. And I tell my customers, "this is where you have to be honest with yourself". Was the reticle exactly where you wanted it, when the rifle fired? If it was, and a miss happened, then the miss was not shooter error. But if you're honest, and you think the reticle was not exactly where you wanted it to be, then the miss might have been your fault. If it's shooter error, cycle and try again. If you know you can honestly call the shot a good one, and the bullet did not land where intended then some other factor is in play. Then you narrow down what the miss was caused by and correct it if possible. This is all true at any distance.

My rifles take two rounds to zero a freshly mounted scope, as long as I don't screw up.

Do that with a front rest, and rear bag.

Testing hand loads, or testing mass produced ammo for consistency is letting misses happen.

In other words, zero the rifle. Move to new paper and test load "A" what if the first shot is high and right? Fine, hold the reticle on your original point of aim, and shoot another one. Did the second round group with the first? Did the third, fourth, fifth? Let's say they grouped very well, but technically they all "missed". OK, we now know the ammo is working well with the rifle, so that factor can be checked off. Adjust the scope, move targets, fire again. Then the rifle/ scope/ and ammo (or load) are all working in concert to hit where they are told to hit.

Still don't need a lead sled.

I must have missed the post.

Multiple shots from the same shooter using the same gun and ammo on the same sled but with different amounts of sled weighting?

I've seen several posts from those comparing results on and off the sled, but must have missed the one from someone keeping everything the same but the amount of weight on the sled.

Given the mechanics of the shooter never change to alter the results.

As much as I practice shooting from a simple rest, my shooting skills will never match the consistency of my rifles.

same here, sorry to say

That's unfortunate for both of you. If your eyes are good, the rest can be corrected. Unless you've got Parkinson's, then I can't say I've had to meet that challenge, yet.

Dan, if the sled does not move, it does not matter whether there is 5 pounds on it or 150 pounds of weight.

I agree with JG. If you can't shoot off a rest, or bags, or a bipod well enough to test your ammo or zero the rifle then you really do need to develop at least that skill. What if you have to improvise your rest for a shot at the buck of your dreams? How are you going to make the shot off an improvised rest if you can't do it off of sandbags or some other range rest?

I can understand gravitating toward a lead sled...I thought about it myself when they first appeared on the market, thinking it might help eliminate shooter error while shooting for load development. Maybe in some cases it does...but I blew it off when it occurred to me that it could become too much of a crutch. Some shooters are telling us they did not improve consistency at all for them. Why would they say so if it was not true? I believe it IS true in at least some instances.

And I'll bring up the punishment it can deal out to a stock again, also. If the stock is relatively free to move during recoil, then the stock is not having to absorb all the energy transmitted through the rifle's recoil lug. If that stock cannot move at all, then the inletting takes the full force of the recoil and the wood must absorb all that energy. Stocks can fail due to this abuse, and some have. There are reports of stocks breaking at the wrist, also, when lead sleds are used. It may not be such an issue with a .243 or .250 Savage, but you never know. Your shoulder and body become a pretty effective shock absorber that makes the stock's life much easier, and a lead sled does the exact opposite.

Neighbor across the road is 66 years old, and has taught me volumes about deer hunting and archery shooting and hunting. We hunt together every January for whitetail does on his lease. We have become good friends, and I trust him with everything I have. I think I have earned that trust with him. He's been hand loading longer than I've been alive, and now, periodically comes over or calls me for my input. I take that as a great compliment. The last time he developed a load for his rifle, he brought it all to my range, of course. When he got there I said "what do you need me to do?"

His reply, "heck, I want you to shot these, you're like a rifle vise". My reply was, "maybe, but I'm not as hard on the rifle as a lead sled." He said he'd never own one.