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#6708061 - 03/17/17 05:15 PM Working a load
Matt Hejl Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 05/17/11
Posts: 328
Lets say you guys get a new gun and you pick a good starting point for charge amount for a selected projectile. If you go out and it doesnt group all that well, whats the first thing you adjust? Powder charge? Projectile? COAL?

I typically load like 10 at a certain charge, and go in increments of .5gr up a few spots. Once I dial one of those, then I may go up or down in .2's

Anyways I had a new gun today and didnt do that...I just loaded 20 up today at a central starting charge and it grouped decent...about 1-1.5" at 100yds.

Just curious on how you guys work your loads

thanks

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#6708088 - 03/17/17 05:46 PM Re: Working a load [Re: Matt Hejl]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 20862
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
From the thread below.

Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: Sneaky
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
What cartridge?


Any. I'm just curious what everyone does, in general.


6.5 Creedmoor I'll start the bullet .030" jump to the lands, then group shoot a 140 gr bullet atop H-4350 42.0-43.0 gr at 200 yards. If it prints a tight group, I like it. Mine put down a 3/4" five shot group at 200 yards on its first day. Called it good, then took it to the big range. If it'll hit center on steel from 400 to 800, I'm good with it.

.308 Win, H-Varget, 44.0-45.0 gr, 178 gr bullet, .010" off the lands. Group shoot it at 200-500 yards for five.

Give me something I don't know to be almost written in stone, and I'll research "the" powder for it, seat the bullet .001" off the lands, then ladder test it at 500 yards. After the ladder, I'll group shoot what I learned from the ladder, and do it 200-500 yards. If I want to improve from there, I'll adjust the bullet jump in .005" increments, after I decided on powder charge.
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#6708092 - 03/17/17 05:52 PM Re: Working a load [Re: Matt Hejl]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 20862
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
In your case:

Make sure your twist rate is suitable for your bullet weight.

Look at minimum and maximum charge for your bullet. I tend to write down maximum then work backward in .3 gr increments until I get halfway to minimum, and start shooting at the mode point. 3 shots can tell you a bad load, heck sometimes two can. 5 shots in a group will drive it home. If your barrel can tolerate it.

Pick the change that shot the best, and keep it. Then make groups playing with seating depth in .005" or .010" increments progressively increasing the bullet jump.

If none of that makes you happy, it may be time to change

A. The bullet

or

B. The powder

But only change one factor at a time, and start the whole process all over shooting groups testing varying powder charged, then picking a charge, then testing bullet jump if your heart desires.
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#6708277 - 03/17/17 09:22 PM Re: Working a load [Re: Matt Hejl]
Cool Mo D Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 04/15/11
Posts: 4074
Loc: E. TX.
May I ask, why do you ladder at 500?

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#6708341 - 03/17/17 11:16 PM Re: Working a load [Re: Cool Mo D]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 20862
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Sine wave.

Every bullet going down a barrel causes the barrel to move in a sine wave. You want the bullet to leave the barrel when the muzzle (end of the sine wave) is in upward deflection, pause, bullet leaves, muzzle drops back down.

To find that barrel pause, you need to punch paper at distance, so that the results are easier to read, they spread out more as powder charge is increased. Until the node is found, the momentary pause from upward barrel deflection to downward. Like throwing a tennis ball straight up in the air. It will stop, briefly, at the top. When that happens in the barrel, not like powder charges will group together.

For instance, a 6.5 Creedmoor will group 42.1, 42.4, and 42.7 gr sub MOA. That's the node, and often the middle charge will be the "one".
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#6708541 - 03/18/17 11:09 AM Re: Working a load [Re: Matt Hejl]
RiverRider Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 7017
Loc: Wise Co.
Close to correct...but no bullseye.
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Originally Posted By: Ronald Reagan
It's not that liberals are not smart, it's just that so much of what they know isn't so.

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#6708563 - 03/18/17 11:58 AM Re: Working a load [Re: RiverRider]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 20862
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Please enlighten us.
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#6708571 - 03/18/17 12:13 PM Re: Working a load [Re: Matt Hejl]
RiverRider Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 7017
Loc: Wise Co.
Done it before, only leads to scoffing. I'll point you back at the thread about the barrel tuner, though. That's where the water is, drink if you want and don't if you'd rather not.
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Originally Posted By: Ronald Reagan
It's not that liberals are not smart, it's just that so much of what they know isn't so.

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#6708589 - 03/18/17 12:37 PM Re: Working a load [Re: RiverRider]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 20862
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Disagreement leads to educational discussion, as long as no one gets emotional about the disagreement.

Barrel tuner in lieu of load tweaking.

I speak of what I learned, I tried, and have had great results. None of my rifles have barrel tuners, because I am a hand loader.
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#6708676 - 03/18/17 03:15 PM Re: Working a load [Re: Matt Hejl]
Cool Mo D Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 04/15/11
Posts: 4074
Loc: E. TX.
Thanks FJG smile

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#6708716 - 03/18/17 04:11 PM Re: Working a load [Re: Matt Hejl]
RiverRider Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 7017
Loc: Wise Co.
JG, you made up your mind about it before you learned anything at all. I took the time to let the guy who set up Mike Stinnett's benchrest rifle (the one that set a new world record only a few years ago) explain it all to me. I know Ralph Stewart.

Have a nice day.
_________________________


Originally Posted By: Ronald Reagan
It's not that liberals are not smart, it's just that so much of what they know isn't so.

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#6708743 - 03/18/17 04:40 PM Re: Working a load [Re: RiverRider]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 20862
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
That said nothing about load development.

And not everyone wants to move around with a tuner attached to their barrel. Am I trying to compete with his results? Nope, I have no interest in bench rest.

The way I understand it, there are two ways to get to the finish line of a tight shooting load; a load tuned to the barrel, or a load almost tuned to the barrel, and a barrel tuner attached. Correct me if I'm wrong, if it's not too much of a bother for you. Unless you're going to choose to remain being, what ever you're being...
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#6708745 - 03/18/17 04:40 PM Re: Working a load [Re: Cool Mo D]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 20862
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Originally Posted By: Cool Mo D
Thanks FJG smile


Yessir.
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#6708764 - 03/18/17 05:07 PM Re: Working a load [Re: Matt Hejl]
RiverRider Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 7017
Loc: Wise Co.
Maybe the benchrest community would benefit tremendously if you'd join them. They obviously are clueless when it comes to handloading.

*sarcasm off*
The reason they use tuners is to adjust to conditions changing hour-by-hour. They know how to handload...trust me on this. If you think you've got a handloading secret that will overcome changing conditions, then you should be shooting benchrest and cleaning up. Dang, I turned that sarcasm thing off and it came right back on all by itself.

Now, you're not interested in shooting benchrest, and that's fine. That does not mean that you can't learn things from the discipline---but that requires an open mind, now, doesn't it? Maybe that's just beyond your reach.
loser8

I don't know why I bother.
_________________________


Originally Posted By: Ronald Reagan
It's not that liberals are not smart, it's just that so much of what they know isn't so.

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#6708779 - 03/18/17 05:35 PM Re: Working a load [Re: RiverRider]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 20862
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Wow!

What did I ever write to suggest I knew more than the BR community? Judd shoots bench rest, and I'll run things by him quite often, same as Chad. In fact, if I look at my text message list both of them were within the last two days.

You still have not addressed anything pertaining to the topic. Maybe you don't know, maybe you'd just rather be rude to me, because it gives you pleasure. You said "close, no bull's-eye" yet still have not said why that is.

Well done on typing a whole bunch of words get not contributing to the topic what so ever.

All because I did not have 100% faith in your computer program, that according to you I'm too dumb to understand, despite being responsible for lives, multi-million dollar equipment and can have a conversation with a cardiologist that the lay person standing by wouldn't understand the majority of it.

How's that chip on your shoulder and sarcasm working out?
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