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Some truth?



A lot of truth imo





One big reason I quit hunting whitetail

still low class hunter here...
Hunting is a means of providing for ing & chilling...

The former are found but far and few in between.

I'm right there with you.

Yeah, I think that is spot on. Been wondering when exactly we started hunting to impress others instead of satisfying ourselves. Age and score is talked about to much I think. If it makes you happy, then take him. If your neighbor is mad because he isn't 5 1/2 or at least 150, tell him where to stick it. I miss the way it was. And for those who don't mind going 4 or 5 years without pulling the trigger because the right one hasn't showed up, I hope I never get there. I love hunting and eating deer and would rather take a 110" to 120" buck each year than to have to wait every 5 years to take "one". JMO of course. I may never kill a 150", but it doesn't mean I'm having less fun. "Fun"! Isn't that what its supposed to be about?

x2

I think a lot of men have lost, or have never been taught, how to show interest and support in a friend's life. Instead, to make conversation, they try to show how much they know. Kind of a lack of maturity and class.

Yep, if you don't hunt the way I hunt and think hunting should be done, you are doing it wrong. Everything was better in the past.

There's no truth at all to the second one.












Nobody 'talks' to anybody anymore.

I still hunt for ME and family, the heck with others. Whether it's a doe or buck (not Bambi or yearling).

Meh... we also don't let our babies play with lead paint either

One of the saddest things I have ever seen is a buddy shoot a deer he was tickled and excited about to no end, "score" it, and immediately become disappointed because the number wasn't as high as he thought it would be.

Something is very wrong with that picture.

Sounds good but if your really serious and love hunting and it's supposed to be fun.......Why does it have to be a "buck" every time? ....or even a buck at all?

(Just playin' devil's advocate with you)

Just try not to be the camp "expert". There's been one in every deer camp I've been in in the last 15 years. Doesn't matter whether it's a kid's first buck or an 85 year old's last buck. He runs out to the truck, with his tape measure and ring of plastic deer jaws ( ) and he's not there to congratulate. Oh no, he's gonna try desperately to be able to proudly utter that self-validating phrase "I wouldna shot dat deer." It somehow gives his life meaning. And if he can't reasonably make this pronouncement? He sulks.

Just try to have fun dammit.

Sad but many times, True.
Adios,
Gary

The problem could be quickly and easily dispatched by creating a single season that allows hunters to use their tool of choice. There is no debate that the division started when wildlife agencies followed the guidance of equipment manufacturers looking to create and expand their sales markets by creating seasons based on techniques. Our ancestors would call the current state of the values we have as nothing short of disgusting.

Oh good grief. So bow season and muzzle loader season caused the issues we have today with people wanting trophies and discussions that follow...okay

Our ancestors hunted for meat and necessity of the animal including the bones, hide, and had a use for every part. Plus, they didn't have the internet to share or argue about their beliefs and conquest.

Lordy, you attempt to shoehorn that misguided grievance into every discussion.

You're like a drunk in denial. The uproar within the bow hunting community at the first mention of allowing crossbows is undeniable evidence of the division I noted earlier.

But that's okay. Like the drunk, everyone else knows better.

Another in denial.

The state of deer hunting is based on a bell curve and the example above is clearly emblematic of the right side of the curve and I'm fine with that. the right distribution of the curve use to be simply defined as "buck" leading the middle part of the distribution to be "brown and its down". Theres a reason deer hunting is as good as its ever been, but like most things in life, all good things tend to have a downside which in this case is the crowd that gets too hung up on score. In a perfect world, score would be replaced by age and points would be replace by weight. That said, we certainly seem to be heading in the right direction!

I've been hunting a little over 60 years, and I always say the same two words on every one brought into camp.."nice deer."

That's 'cause your folks raised a gentleman.

Well, I stand corrected. I wouldn't have realized it if you hadn't had provided such a clear and precise argument with ample evidence to back it up. Even though it is the same thing you blame almost everything in the hunting world that you don't like, seems to be a fit all for you

You made one point (bowhunting) to address all the issues listed in the OP, or you just picked out that point because it is the one that gets under your skin more than the others. I am sure there is some illuminating story as to what you have against the different seasons.

Funny you mention the bowhunters having an issue with crossbows, but you don't mention the rifle hunters having an issue with bow season. I have seen more complaints about the bowhunters getting first shot at the deer than I have seen bow hunters complain about crossbows. As far as division in hunting, I believe this is one of the least prevelant issues according to threads on this forum. That would be HF/LF, .223, and whether you got to the lease in a ford or Chevy.

But hey, your right, I'm the drunk in denial. If they changed it to a single season, any weapon, I am sure all the other issues would just go away. No one would care of it was a bow or rifle, no one would care the score, no one would care if it was HF, no would care if you had it on camera...heck, I bet no one would even use a camera anymore.

Single season would take us back to the good ol days and make our ancestors proud!!!

Guess I wasn't, after I tell them nice deer...I love to hear the story!!

First, what txshntr said.

Second, you are just plain wrong about your assertion that equipment manufacturers had anything to do with a separate bow season. That happened long ago as a result of ordinary rank and file bowhunters who worked hard and made the case for responsible bowhunting as an ethical endeavor with added challenge. The equipment used back then was overwhelmingly primitive in nature (recurves and longbows) and the manufacturers weren't the lobbying machines they are today. The early archery season did not take one day away from the rifle hunting season, and still doesn't. There was no division among hunters concerning its creation and there was none for decades after its creation.

(Your assertion of manufacturer influence is largely correct with regard to the allowance of crossbows during archery season, which is a relatively recent occurence. But that had nothing to do with creating the archery season that had been in place a long, long time at that point.)

The separate seasons for archery and gun use have not been topics of division amongst hunters in any way, shape, or form - until guys like you came along who don't choose to accept the added challenge of bowhunting began whining and wanting something others have who do accept those challenges (the separate season). That's where the division came in.

For a guy who is obsessed in touting your "old school" methodology (no feeders, no blinds, public land, etc., etc., etc.), your utter disdain for those who challenge themselves to get up close and personal by bowhunting is as perplexing as it is misguided.

Agreed. I have never learned how to 'score' a deer, and have no desire to now. It is not relevant to my objectives and is demeaning to the spiritual aspects of hunting.

I do the same.

I was a guest of an old friend on a hill country lease several years ago. His brother was also a guest hunter that weekend and the guest brother had never taken a deer before. This was a typical small over hunted hill country lease with small bodied deer. No guest rules and not managed for deer size. On the last day of the trip the brother had still not taken a deer. I offered a plan of me using a grunt call and rattling horns placing one of the two brothers ahead of me out to my right and the other ahead of me out to my left. I had them move across the lease with me this way stopping every several hundred yards while I rattled. The brother that had never hunted before. A small 8 point buck about run him over trying to get to me and he shot it. When I got to him he was one of the happiest men I have ever seen. Everything worked as planned and for him it had been an exciting hunt. I congratulated and gave a couple high fives,. When the other brother came over he went right into judging it as a basket rack and how he would not have shot it and why his brother should not have shot it. Worst buzz kill I have ever witnessed.

Dang SJ, that's tough to hear. Very sad.

From 1923:

I think social media, hunting shows and technology like trail cams has spoiled us with a constant flow of numerous nice bucks. And then you have management practices that were non existent 20 years ago on a broad scale like today.

I really don't like bucks being judged on a B&C score that a club came up with. If you like him, you should kill him.

But not if the rules where you hunt say otherwise. There are leases that allow you to shoot any buck you like if that's what makes you happy.

I don't like hunters that disparage another hunters kill. Bad form IMO. Especially a first time hunter excited from their success.

Good one. My favorite from Gene Hill's A Hunters Fireside Book

"There is no score worth keeping. All we should ever count is hours, never birds, nor length of horn or hits or misses. If we want to do something where we can't lose, then we must first accept the proposition that we cannot win. We are not involved in a contest, but a very simple and pure journey that promises each day out will be different, unrepeatable, unrecapturable....."

That looks like a very interesting book. I just ordered a copy on Amazon. Can't wait to read it! Thanks for sharing!

Journey? What journey is there in stting in the same old office chair in the same box stand waiting for something to show up and eat?

Hunt and Fish, you are correct sir. My freezer almost always gets filled with "doe meat" before buck meat. I bow hunt and gun hunt(also have a crossbow) and I am an opportunist at heart. If a big doe comes in, I may watch her for a while hoping ol' big will show up but chances are, she won't get to leave. Of course I want a big buck! Been that way since I started hunting as a child and the prospect of that is thrilling to me even at 51 years of age. But, a buck isn't the deciding factor on rather or not I have had a successful season. A freezer full of sausage and deer steaks is. Hunting is as much a part of me as my hands or feet. And I am proud of that fact. I think that for those hunters who "have" to get the big one to be successful, its truly sad. Not saying that to start an argument! Its just the way I feel.

I hunt for my peace and reflection. I've yet to take a tape on a buck as it has nothing to do with sausage. Making sausage and firing up my smokehouse is second on my list. I do love how many "Age & Score" topics and picks are posted. However, I realize many are new to hunting and all they know is what the read on the internet, and that doesn't make them wrong. When I see a deer when hunting, I see the poster you see at the butcher shop showing the different cuts of meat, and from there I try to total up how many links of sausage I will get. But that's my hot button, while others are about mass and tines.

And now...the thought for the day:




“All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone.”
Blaise Pascal, Pensées

You missed the point.

I have hunted deer for over 20 years. Nothing I do in hunting is because of what others want or think. Even our biggest deer are of little size to most people. For me and mine it is something we do and enjoy together. We no longer get our kicks shooting 2-3 year old 8 pts. Sure I still get a rush just shooting does and spikes, but I'm willing to let the nicer young ones walk because of what they can be. Anyone who disagrees but will shoot a bigger buck over a smaller one is lying to themselves. We have fun watching the deer grow seeing what they become from one year to the next and if you pay close attention there is a lot more out there to learn than you may have thought.

That's bbbaaaaaaaaddddddd aaaazzzzzzzzzz......

Happens a lot.

I've learned more about living life and God in a deer blind in an old office chair than by getting preached at. And like it or not, life is a journey. So, X2 to what chalet said.

There's more to hunting than antlers, scores, Jawbones, maturity, and even freezers full of venison. Those are all icing on the cake that is the ultimate outdoor experience, whether from a Texas safari rig, elk drop camp, or deer blind.

What may I ask did you learn about God in a deer stand?

I always classify the people who say they don't go to church because they feel closer to God in the outdoors hunting/fishing on sunday mornings hipocrites or lazy.

Well, I think your generalization is, unfortunately, largely correct. I heard a man say that to a pastor I admired once. His reply: "I know you can worship Him in the deer stand and on the lake but the real question is: do you?"

That said, sometimes I hunt on Sundays. I try to worship and talk to Him then, and other days. But I ain't perfect at it by any means. The outdoors does seem to often draw me closer to Him though. And that is scriptural (Romans).

I don't always choose the deer blind over Sunday morning church. It's Sunday morning NFL those other times

I have surely hunted and fished enough sundays in my life. I also sit down to breakfast after many sunday mornings after the hunt with my family pray and sometimes sing a hymn. Always? No. Nor am I judging anyone, but I do think in common practice its bs to simply say "I feel closer to God in the outdoors" News flash if your doing church for you, your in it for the wrong reason.

Hey man you gotta do what you gotta do. Id rather be stuck hugging the toilet than have to watch NFL sunday morning.

His Creation, His power, and just solidified in my mind that He exists. Nature is too intricate to just have happened.

I never said I'm closer to Him in a deer blind than in his Houses. Only that observation of His handiwork gets through to me more than sermons do, sometimes.

Well, I can't argue with that. I feel the exact same way.

at your age, you might connect more with God outdoors than you will in church.


however, when you get older, have a lot more life experiences, trials and tribulations, you will likely feel convictions that you will only get from a church sermon.

however, you can argue the existence of God all day long, in todays modern world I can see where it would be easy to question it....however if you are along on the mountain, hearing elk bugle, mule deer feed and see trout swimming and you want to deny the existence of God, that imo is ludicrous.

Imagining Creation came into being without God is tantamount to imagining a volcano spewing up a brand new Rolex watch. (Actually, even more ludicrous than that - but you get the picture.)

and then the clouds opened up and God spoke to Moses, "My child, he could have used another year"

Let's get back to whining about .223s, HFs, and other stuff now.

Lol!! Or the other way. Last year, I passed a nice one. Pretty sure when the deer walked off He said "My child, you should have shot that one."

another part of scripture that is often overlooked is not working on the Sabbath, so if you are gonna hunt on the Sabbath you don't wanna do any work like blood trailing so you better put that .223 back in the cabinet

I hate the trophy mentality. It isn't the inches of bone the deer carries on its head, it is the feeling from the hunt/harvest.

Argue with my kid over this all the time. He is a straight running antler snob.

its the sign of the times.

I shot a middle aged 3x3 mule deer this year. a bonafide cull. Hunted my arse off and passed up better bucks because I was looking for a true trophy. last evening of the hunt and we spot a deer 2 miles off in the distance, has a decent frame but can't see points. drive a mile, walk the remaining mile thru two huge grass flats, creek bed, mesquite thicket and when I finally got close enough to judge him found out he was a cull. Didn't matter, shot him anyway and I was happy. the whole hunt was a great experience.


too many people nowadays are caught up in the prestige of killing a big deer. Don't get me wrong, I am a trophy hunter. I don't hunt for meat (unless its an axis then I shoot all I can), its about the head, hide and adrenaline rush, but don't let the pursuit of that soil the reason you hunt in the first place

It will change as his outdoor time becomes more limited.

It took my wife a long time to figure me out. She use to say you spend more time taking pictures and passing deer then hunting.... she nows gets if I shoot I'm done hunting...only took her 8 years.

Bravo, sir.. I haven't laughed that hard in a while..

Here is another experience from the late 80's/90's. Hunting with an uncle who said he didn't see anything later to find out he saw 10 does. On the last day of the season shooting some 6p with milk on its lips while he had 10+ does standing out there with a horribly out of whack buck to doe ratio probably 10 does for every buck, but he had to shoot a buck. Was one of the first things I wondered about when I saw that little buck hanging in the tree. For those where trophy's are bs and its not about the horns, how many just cant shoot a doe?

I kill the hell outta does. I would much rather kill a doe than shoot an immature buck.


I get no pleasure hanging up a immature rack in my garage

^^^same here^^^

I have a trophy mentality I guess sorta by default, but I don't impose it for others. I've just shot enough bucks to suit me except for bigguns. Lots of times that means no buck shot, just does for meat.

I'm not into score though. I'm a walking contradiction.

That pretty well describes me.

I've shot a lot of deer in my life, and now I won't shoot a buck unless it is an old one I want to hang on the wall. But all I need to see is that it is an old, fully mature buck that I like. I never care to put a tape on them. But I may go 5 years without shooting a white tail buck.

I'll shoot does for the freezer, and I'll happily put a kid on a buck that is a shooter for the kid based on his/her history, even if it would not be for me.

Maybe he reads the Bible in his blind? I think there are way more hypocrites that go to church than there are hunters that enjoy a Sunday morning hunt!

I read my Bible in the deer blind not only on Sunday mornings but any day that I am in the blind. I don't consider myself to be ether a hypocrite or lazy.

Have done that sometimes

If you could mark and pass along any scriptures read while sighting good deer, it would be much appreciated.

Call me what you will, but when you say you read the Bible in the outdoors I tend to believe you. Ive never met a person who said they felt closer to God in the outdoors and tried to call it worship who professed to actually read the bible or any other way of worship other than they felt closer to God... by pleasing themselves and making an excuse for it. Don't get me wrong ive done my share of missing church and sinning and ive done a bit of praying(other than God bring me a big buck/fish) and praising in the outdoors as well.

On another thread folks talked about the show Meateater -- Steve Rinella from that show also has a podcast. In episode 11 he talks about doe to buck ratios and a bit of the hunting mentality change from the 80's to today. This episode focuses on a farm in Wisconsin, but it's interesting to hear. What's interesting to me -- hunting laws (again, for Wisconsin) went from needing a "party permit" to hunt does, to the earn-a-buck program, to now any animal first. It's possible policy drove your uncle's hunting mentality.

"When the boys grew up, Esau became a skillful hunter, a man of the field, but Jacob was a peaceful man, living in tents." Gen 25:27

"Now then, please take your gear, your quiver and your bow, and go out to the field and hunt game for me;" Gen 27:3

"He gives food to every living thing. His faithful love endures forever. Give thanks to the God of heaven. His faithful love endures forever." Psalm 136:25-26

“But ask the animals, and they will teach you, or the birds in the sky, and they will tell you; or speak to the earth, and it will teach you, or let the fish in the sea inform you. Which of all these does not know that the hand of the LORD has done this? In his hand is the life of every creature and the breath of all mankind." Job 12: 7-10

SW, that ain't what I'm asking for. I want to know what he's reading when he sees a good buck. That way, I can just skip to that and see a good buck, myself. I'm looking for a short cut, here.

Thanks for the fine scriptures, anyway. Always appreciated.

Anytime one hunter group wants to restrict other licensed hunters from the resource for ANY reason, there will be division.

Well...that was a Sneaky way of asking.

I have no shame.

I heard ya gotta carry the St. Hubertus symbol around with you:



And you know the easiest way to do that is carry a bottle of this:

I could handle that, if that's what it took.

Same here. Catch a good buzz and it doesn't taste all that bad. Like cough syrup.

I did not know we had a patron saint


That's awesome

You must have never tasted Robitussin DM...... It works but I have to choke it down!