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IMR4451. Are you loading it in anything?
#6616753
01/04/17 11:53 PM
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Creedmoor
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I've been experimenting a bit with IMR4451 over the last few months. Seems to be a good substitute for H4350 in some applications. It actually shoots better in my 6.5 Creedmoor than any H4350 loads that I have tried, and the loss of velocity was only about 100 fps. Better accuracy than the H4350 and it seems to be quite a bit less fouling. I have tried it in the 7mm-08 with 140 grain bullets but it can't beat the IMR4064 yet. Got a bit more tuning to do before I give up on it in that rifle.
Anyone using it yet?
. There's a fine line between BRAVE ... and STUPID.
The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.
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Re: IMR4451. Are you loading it in anything?
[Re: Creedmoor]
#6616827
01/05/17 12:34 AM
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ChadTRG42
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Shhhh! Don't let the secret out! I'm using it also, but I'm not seeing the velocity loss you're listing. I'm showing it to be almost identical to H4350. I'm liking it in the 6.5 CM, 6.5x47, 260 Rem, and some 270 Win loads I've tried. I actually shot some more of this powder in the 6.5 CM with 140 A-max yesterday at the range, and was getting 2780 fps with a modest charge of 4451 out of a Ruger RPR.
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Re: IMR4451. Are you loading it in anything?
[Re: Creedmoor]
#6616834
01/05/17 12:42 AM
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Just to clarify that velocity loss, it came with the best groups. I could have cranked it up a considerable amount, but the accuracy started to fall off. My best accuracy load with IMR4451 came out to be 100fps average slower than my best accuracy load with H4350. And the SD was much better. Honestly I never found a load with H4350 that was what I thought the cartridge and rifle were capable of.
. There's a fine line between BRAVE ... and STUPID.
The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.
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Re: IMR4451. Are you loading it in anything?
[Re: Creedmoor]
#6616923
01/05/17 01:25 AM
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J.G.
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I've got some sitting idle. When I can get to it, it'll be below an 140 gr. ELD-M in a 6.5 Creedmoor case.
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Re: IMR4451. Are you loading it in anything?
[Re: Creedmoor]
#6616937
01/05/17 01:32 AM
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papa45
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I actually shot a few rounds today. I started tinkering with 4451 a year ago to determine for myself if it is as temperature-insensitive as advertised, and did not find it to be so. I decided to try again and tested some near-max .243 Win loads of IMR4451, IMR4350 and H4350 at 33-35 degrees. The 4451 loads were about 100 fps faster than the other two and shot the best group, but that's only one point on the curve. I will shoot the same three loads again in the summer at around 80 degrees and then decide whether to continue.
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Re: IMR4451. Are you loading it in anything?
[Re: Creedmoor]
#6617358
01/05/17 12:19 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
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dee
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I've shot about 10lbs of it last year and really like it. Ran it in 6mm Creedmoor and 7mm-08AI.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: IMR4451. Are you loading it in anything?
[Re: Creedmoor]
#6617481
01/05/17 01:57 PM
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JTPinTX
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I have been testing it in my 6.5 Creedmoor with a 143 ELD-X. Accuracy node seems to be a bit slower than H4350, I would say about 75 FPS lower in my rifle. There is room to go up, but not enough room to catch the next node. It seems like a pretty good powder, just not quite as good as H-4350 in my Creed.
Next week I will start testing with it in a 7x57 with a 162 ELD.
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Re: IMR4451. Are you loading it in anything?
[Re: J.G.]
#6617512
01/05/17 02:11 PM
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RiverRider
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I've got some sitting idle. When I can get to it, it'll be below an 140 gr. ELD-M in a 6.5 Creedmoor case. So you were complaining and harrassing Chad just for the fun of it?
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: IMR4451. Are you loading it in anything?
[Re: papa45]
#6617525
01/05/17 02:16 PM
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RiverRider
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I will shoot the same three loads again in the summer at around 80 degrees and then decide whether to continue. Heck, you could have an 80-degree day to shoot rhat load in the next two weeks. You never know in Texas!
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: IMR4451. Are you loading it in anything?
[Re: JTPinTX]
#6617531
01/05/17 02:18 PM
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Creedmoor
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I have been testing it in my 6.5 Creedmoor with a 143 ELD-X. Accuracy node seems to be a bit slower than H4350, I would say about 75 FPS lower in my rifle. There is room to go up, but not enough room to catch the next node. That was exactly my situation.
. There's a fine line between BRAVE ... and STUPID.
The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.
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Re: IMR4451. Are you loading it in anything?
[Re: RiverRider]
#6617569
01/05/17 02:34 PM
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ChadTRG42
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I've got some sitting idle. When I can get to it, it'll be below an 140 gr. ELD-M in a 6.5 Creedmoor case. So you were complaining and harrassing Chad just for the fun of it? LOL!! True dat!!
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Re: IMR4451. Are you loading it in anything?
[Re: RiverRider]
#6617590
01/05/17 02:41 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
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I will shoot the same three loads again in the summer at around 80 degrees and then decide whether to continue. Heck, you could have an 80-degree day to shoot rhat load in the next two weeks. You never know in Texas! I shot my loads in 100° plus days as well as 25° and didn't loose much. No more noticeable than h4350.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: IMR4451. Are you loading it in anything?
[Re: Creedmoor]
#6617611
01/05/17 02:48 PM
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ChadTRG42
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I shot my 6.5 CM test loads Tuesday when it was in the upper 30's. The starting charge of 4451 was the same charge weight I stopped at in the summer time. In the summer, that same powder charge ran 2720 fps, and Tuesday ran 2782 fps avg. Same everything, just ammo loaded a different time.
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Re: IMR4451. Are you loading it in anything?
[Re: Creedmoor]
#6617615
01/05/17 02:50 PM
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Cattleman
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I've got some I'm experimenting with in my 243 with 80 grain nosler BT. I bought imr 4451 initially to try in my 6.5x47 but I found a varget load it likes so I'm going to stay with that a while . I will probably give it a try sooner or later.
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Re: IMR4451. Are you loading it in anything?
[Re: RiverRider]
#6617685
01/05/17 03:19 PM
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J.G.
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I've got some sitting idle. When I can get to it, it'll be below an 140 gr. ELD-M in a 6.5 Creedmoor case. So you were complaining and harrassing Chad just for the fun of it? Well yes. But I still didn't get it from him until a month after I was spozed to. I'm starting to think he does this just to poke me in the ribs.
Last edited by FiremanJG; 01/05/17 03:20 PM.
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Re: IMR4451. Are you loading it in anything?
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#6617693
01/05/17 03:25 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
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dee
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I shot my 6.5 CM test loads Tuesday when it was in the upper 30's. The starting charge of 4451 was the same charge weight I stopped at in the summer time. In the summer, that same powder charge ran 2720 fps, and Tuesday ran 2782 fps avg. Same everything, just ammo loaded a different time. At Shoot for the Green last year we started in the 20°'s then finished in the 70°'s and I was on all day. I will say I've heard of some guys drying the stuff out as it is shipped pretty wet.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: IMR4451. Are you loading it in anything?
[Re: Creedmoor]
#6618254
01/05/17 09:01 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,224
papa45
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Shipped wet??? I've never heard of anything like that in reference to powder. Please explain.
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Re: IMR4451. Are you loading it in anything?
[Re: Creedmoor]
#6618289
01/05/17 09:28 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
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Deans
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I'm using it in my 7 SAUM with 140 NBT. Don't have my notes with me so can't give velocities but accuracy seems to be good.
“Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness.” ISAIAH 41:10
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Re: IMR4451. Are you loading it in anything?
[Re: papa45]
#6618410
01/05/17 10:52 PM
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RiverRider
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Shipped wet??? I've never heard of anything like that in reference to powder. Please explain. I'm not positive myself, but I'd go out on a limb and speculate that it means "wet" with solvents that have not completely evaporated. There may not be "much" in there, but what is in there adds a little mass.
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: IMR4451. Are you loading it in anything?
[Re: Creedmoor]
#6618449
01/05/17 11:11 PM
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Buzzsaw
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SPACE FOR RENT
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Re: IMR4451. Are you loading it in anything?
[Re: RiverRider]
#6618531
01/06/17 12:20 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
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Shipped wet??? I've never heard of anything like that in reference to powder. Please explain. I'm not positive myself, but I'd go out on a limb and speculate that it means "wet" with solvents that have not completely evaporated. There may not be "much" in there, but what is in there adds a little mass. It does look a bit damp when new. I don't honestly know what it is. I'll try and snap a pic in a bit of new sealed and older stuff too.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: IMR4451. Are you loading it in anything?
[Re: Creedmoor]
#6618614
01/06/17 01:24 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
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dee
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Couldn't get a good pick but cup closest to the loading block is brand new out of a fresh 8lb jug. Other is from a jug I've had a while. Pics don't show it as well as it is in person but there is a difference. Like I said I don't have a clue the difference as I just load and shoot.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: IMR4451. Are you loading it in anything?
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#6618688
01/06/17 02:15 AM
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Creedmoor
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. There's a fine line between BRAVE ... and STUPID.
The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.
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Re: IMR4451. Are you loading it in anything?
[Re: Creedmoor]
#6618734
01/06/17 02:44 AM
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papa45
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That's very interesting. Yes, I guess it could be solvent. I have noticed that sometimes a new container of powder opened for the first time can have a stronger odor (solvent?) than one that has been in use for a while.
I have always tried to keep my powder closed tightly so it won't absorb moisture (water vapor.) I presume it has some level of moisture in it when I buy it. Keeping it closed helps keep the moisture level more constant.
If the solvent evaporates with time, then each kernel of powder becomes lighter in weight. Then we get more kernels for each grain of powder. Does that create more fire, more pressure, more velocity per grain? dee, have you ever tested exact same loads using "wet" vs "dry" powder?
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Re: IMR4451. Are you loading it in anything?
[Re: papa45]
#6619033
01/06/17 01:22 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
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dee
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That's very interesting. Yes, I guess it could be solvent. I have noticed that sometimes a new container of powder opened for the first time can have a stronger odor (solvent?) than one that has been in use for a while.
I have always tried to keep my powder closed tightly so it won't absorb moisture (water vapor.) I presume it has some level of moisture in it when I buy it. Keeping it closed helps keep the moisture level more constant.
If the solvent evaporates with time, then each kernel of powder becomes lighter in weight. Then we get more kernels for each grain of powder. Does that create more fire, more pressure, more velocity per grain? dee, have you ever tested exact same loads using "wet" vs "dry" powder? No sir, I've not tried the 2 back to back. I could do that with this bunch I guess but it's 2 different lots I believe so it won't be a fair shake in my opinion. I would like to study it more. My powder does stay in a temp controlled room so it shouldn't be exposed to any more moisture.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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