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#6613642 - 01/02/17 11:09 PM Not shooting 556 in a 223 chamber
Matt Hejl Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 05/17/11
Posts: 309
What is the actual chamber differences in stock 223 ammo vs 556?

What's the difference in reloaders pushing as hot of loads as they can when reloading 223 vs shooting 556 stock ammo and pressures?

Could you not shoot 556 ammo in a 223 chamber if it didn't show any pressure signs?


Edited by Matt Hejl (01/02/17 11:09 PM)

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#6613658 - 01/02/17 11:29 PM Re: Not shooting 556 in a 223 chamber [Re: Matt Hejl]
okie44 Offline
Tracker

Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 664
Loc: Midland TX.
A good read on the subject

linky
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#6613685 - 01/03/17 12:45 AM Re: Not shooting 556 in a 223 chamber [Re: okie44]
SnakeWrangler Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 01/22/11
Posts: 24382
Loc: Fairfield, TX
Originally Posted By: okie44
A good read on the subject

linky

Thanks for posting....good info....
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#6613939 - 01/03/17 09:04 AM Re: Not shooting 556 in a 223 chamber [Re: Matt Hejl]
RiverRider Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 6559
Loc: Wise Co.
If anyone can locate actual military specification documents showing 60000+ psi via SCATP testing methods for 5.56 ammo, I would love to see it.
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Originally Posted By: Cleric
God I am hating caliber threads more and more

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#6613996 - 01/03/17 09:27 AM Re: Not shooting 556 in a 223 chamber [Re: Matt Hejl]
kmon1 Offline
junior

Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 20870
Loc: Texas
I would like to see that as well RR.

CIP European standards organization does pressure a bit different not just measurement location but in others like max average pressure. Nato/European specs to SAAMI are like apples to oranges, both fruit but different. SAAMI and CIP both specs but different
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#6613998 - 01/03/17 09:28 AM Re: Not shooting 556 in a 223 chamber [Re: RiverRider]
BushFamilyNine Offline
Tracker

Registered: 05/26/13
Posts: 797
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: RiverRider
If anyone can locate actual military specification documents showing 60000+ psi via SCATP testing methods for 5.56 ammo, I would love to see it.


I think that I have the specs showing 63ooo psi for 5.56, but will have to look when I get back home. This is an actual military US Govt resource manual giving the full dimensions and pressures for all military ammunition and artillery. Now knowing whether or not this is actual real world data is a totally different matter.

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#6614032 - 01/03/17 09:46 AM Re: Not shooting 556 in a 223 chamber [Re: RiverRider]
okie44 Offline
Tracker

Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 664
Loc: Midland TX.
Originally Posted By: RiverRider
If anyone can locate actual military specification documents showing 60000+ psi via SCATP testing methods for 5.56 ammo, I would love to see it.


Linky II
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#6614078 - 01/03/17 10:07 AM Re: Not shooting 556 in a 223 chamber [Re: Matt Hejl]
kmon1 Offline
junior

Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 20870
Loc: Texas
Took a look at the link and even thought they do spec for 61000 max PSI for high max pressure with variations of anomaly loads not a standard diet which they list as 55k

3.7.1 Measurement by copper-crush cylinder.-The average chamber pressure of the sample cartridges, conditioned at 70° ± 2°F, shall not exceed 52,000 pounds per square inch (PSI). The average chamber pressure plus three standard deviations of chamber pressure shall not exceed 58,000 PSI.

3.7.2 Measurement by piezoelectric transducer.-The average chamber pressure of the sample cartridges, conditioned at 70° ± 2°F, shall not exceed 55,000 PSI. The average chamber pressure plus three standard deviations of chamber pressure shall not exceed 61,000 PSI.
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#6614087 - 01/03/17 10:10 AM Re: Not shooting 556 in a 223 chamber [Re: okie44]
RiverRider Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 6559
Loc: Wise Co.
Originally Posted By: okie44
Originally Posted By: RiverRider
If anyone can locate actual military specification documents showing 60000+ psi via SCATP testing methods for 5.56 ammo, I would love to see it.


Linky II


Ive seen this one, I believe. But thanks for posting it, and I hope some other folks take the time to look it over.
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Originally Posted By: Cleric
God I am hating caliber threads more and more

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#6614098 - 01/03/17 10:13 AM Re: Not shooting 556 in a 223 chamber [Re: kmon1]
RiverRider Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 6559
Loc: Wise Co.
Originally Posted By: kmon1
Took a look at the link and even thought they do spec for 61000 max PSI for high max pressure with variations of anomaly loads not a standard diet which they list as 55k

3.7.1 Measurement by copper-crush cylinder.-The average chamber pressure of the sample cartridges, conditioned at 70° ± 2°F, shall not exceed 52,000 pounds per square inch (PSI). The average chamber pressure plus three standard deviations of chamber pressure shall not exceed 58,000 PSI.

3.7.2 Measurement by piezoelectric transducer.-The average chamber pressure of the sample cartridges, conditioned at 70° ± 2°F, shall not exceed 55,000 PSI. The average chamber pressure plus three standard deviations of chamber pressure shall not exceed 61,000 PSI.


Yup. I'm sure many will misinterpret that to mean 61000 psi loading data is okay, too...just as CIP and EPVAT specs are abused.
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Originally Posted By: Cleric
God I am hating caliber threads more and more

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#6614112 - 01/03/17 10:22 AM Re: Not shooting 556 in a 223 chamber [Re: Matt Hejl]
okie44 Offline
Tracker

Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 664
Loc: Midland TX.
Western Powder data adds to the confusion. They have data for 5.56 that is listed @ 62,350 P.S.I. Data for 223 and 5.56 on pages 28-32.

Linky III
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#6614118 - 01/03/17 10:25 AM Re: Not shooting 556 in a 223 chamber [Re: Matt Hejl]
RiverRider Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 6559
Loc: Wise Co.
Yep. That one concerns me. I've seen this kind of thing in other places as well, but I have never seen an AUTHORITATIVE document specifying average pressures of 62000 psi as measured by SCATP or SAAMI methods for 5.56 ammo.
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Originally Posted By: Cleric
God I am hating caliber threads more and more

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#6614126 - 01/03/17 10:28 AM Re: Not shooting 556 in a 223 chamber [Re: Matt Hejl]
okie44 Offline
Tracker

Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 664
Loc: Midland TX.
It all boils down to the individual chamber. I have a Super 14" Contender that I cannot get close to published 223 data while my 24" 5.56 AR will not show pressure signs with loads beyond those published.
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#6614178 - 01/03/17 10:55 AM Re: Not shooting 556 in a 223 chamber [Re: Matt Hejl]
Matt Hejl Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 05/17/11
Posts: 309
So say I had a 223 break barrel single shot and I had some 556 ammo and shot it. Primers werent completely flat and showed now issues of pressure...its ok to shoot?

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#6614185 - 01/03/17 11:00 AM Re: Not shooting 556 in a 223 chamber [Re: Matt Hejl]
RiverRider Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 6559
Loc: Wise Co.
I think so, but I'd check to make sure the bullet isn't jammed into the lands before firing it. I'd also make sure the ammo is loaded to genuine specs, too. In other words, 60000 psi is okay if its pressure is measured by CIP or EPVAT methods. Know uour manufacturer, I would say.
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Originally Posted By: Cleric
God I am hating caliber threads more and more

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