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Re: AR Restriction Question
[Re: papa45]
#6613864
01/03/17 02:14 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 181
fencewire
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 181 |
The question has been posed.
I'll update when TPWD weighs in with an answer.
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Re: AR Restriction Question
[Re: papa45]
#6613928
01/03/17 02:57 PM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 140
Eastwood
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 140 |
I asked a game warden and he said broken antlers qualify as unbranched,but he said if the break looks fresh, be prepared for some questions.
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Re: AR Restriction Question
[Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks]
#6614657
01/03/17 09:20 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 974
bossbowman
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 974 |
Broken antler does not count as unbranched. I think you are incorrect about that. If that's the case wouldn't the chart above say one broken or unbranched antler? I shot a cull like this and the GW said it was fine. He looked at it and easily determined I hadn't broken it myself. Might that differ from GW to GW? Maybe, but he said it qualified. If you have a buck that has dropped one of his antlers its not legal because there is not antler to be unbranched, has to have some sore of hardened bone or antler coming out of the pedicle. I have heard from processor that heard from GW that broken antler is "not" unbranched, simply broken. Broken antler does not count as unbranched. I think you are incorrect about that. It is at their discretion to write a ticket if the antler is broken regardless if it is fresh or not, you get a GW having a bad day and your getting a citation.
Last edited by bossbowman; 01/03/17 09:29 PM.
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Re: AR Restriction Question
[Re: bossbowman]
#6614784
01/03/17 10:27 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,252
Texas Dan
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,252 |
It is at their discretion to write a ticket if the antler is broken regardless if it is fresh or not, you get a GW having a bad day and your getting a citation. A perfect segue to another point that should not be overlooked. Any GW can issue you a citation for any offense at any time. However, that alone doesn't make you guilty of the offense. You should have great respect for LEO's, but never at the expense of ignoring your protections under the law.
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
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Re: AR Restriction Question
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6614831
01/03/17 10:49 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,601
sig226fan (Rguns.com)
duck & cover
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duck & cover
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,601 |
It is at their discretion to write a ticket if the antler is broken regardless if it is fresh or not, you get a GW having a bad day and your getting a citation. A perfect segue to another point that should not be overlooked. Any GW can issue you a citation for any offense at any time. However, that alone doesn't make you guilty of the offense. You should have great respect for LEO's, but never at the expense of ignoring your protections under the law. It's also indicative of a poorly defined law/regulation, that was poorly developed, not based on science, and just put in place to make a few rich people happy in four counties in east texas
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Re: AR Restriction Question
[Re: sig226fan (Rguns.com)]
#6615111
01/04/17 01:26 AM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,314
KG68
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,314 |
It is at their discretion to write a ticket if the antler is broken regardless if it is fresh or not, you get a GW having a bad day and your getting a citation. A perfect segue to another point that should not be overlooked. Any GW can issue you a citation for any offense at any time. However, that alone doesn't make you guilty of the offense. You should have great respect for LEO's, but never at the expense of ignoring your protections under the law. It's also indicative of a poorly defined law/regulation, that was poorly developed, not based on science, and just put in place to make a few rich people happy in four counties in east texas So East caused all this?
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Re: AR Restriction Question
[Re: papa45]
#6615412
01/04/17 04:36 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 974
bossbowman
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 974 |
Which 4 counties? cause the first 6 counties that experimented with the rule were between austin and san antone not east texas...
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Re: AR Restriction Question
[Re: papa45]
#6615706
01/04/17 01:53 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,560
Slow Drifter
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,560 |
I did e-mail TP&W a few years ago about branched on one side and completely missing on the other. I wish I'd saved the reply to post, but the reply said the inside spread is not "infinity," it is zero, because the deer does not have the requred unbranched antler.
Also, it was mentioned somewhere above that you can't shoot an antlered doe. You can shoot anantlered doe if the does antlers meet AR requirements. That's why there are no "doe" tags, ony antlered/antlerless.
Peronally,and this is just me,I think the regs have some built in ambiguity to place at least some responsibilty on the hunter, as well as to leave the wardens some discretion when there was obviously no intent to violate a law. There is such thing as "spirit of the law," and to intentionallyviolate the spirit of the law just because you see a loophole, to me, is as bad as breaking the law. I'm not up on a soap box and don't care what someone else shoots. We only have one rule on my place when it comes to what you can kill. You ony have to answer to yourself and the Game Warden.
"I have no idea what WW-III will be fought with, but WW-IV will be fought with sticks and stones." A. Einstein
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Re: AR Restriction Question
[Re: papa45]
#6621074
01/07/17 05:16 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,222
papa45
OP
Pro Tracker
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OP
Pro Tracker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,222 |
I spoke with two Game Wardens at the DSC Show in Dallas yesterday and posed the two original questions to them.
Q1. A young buck has 2 or 3 points on one side, but the other side is missing, broken or deformed so that there are no points. Is that a legal buck?
A1. If there is no antler at all on one side, there is no unbranched antler, therefor it is not a legal deer. If there is a stub or any kind of projection through the skin (even if it is a broken antler) and it has no branches, it is a legal deer. Bottom line is, it must have at least one unbranched antler.
Q2. A spike has a visible bump on one or both sides. What is a branch? Must the antler be entirely smooth to be unbranched? A point is defined as a projection of one inch or more; does a point become a branch in this case?
A2. If a main beam has a bump or projection that is at least 1" (see the definition of a point in the Outdoor Annual) it is considered a branch. If all projections are less than 1" it is an unbranched antler.
Another Game Warden or TPWD staffer might have another interpretation, but I'm satisfied with this. I was faced with these two situations early in the season with my grandson, who was anxious to shoot the first thing he saw. I did not let him shoot in either case. In the case of the missing antler, I suspected it had been broken or damaged and we were really looking at a young buck, who the restriction was intended to protect. In the second case, I simply wasn't sure when a bump is considered a branch. In both cases, I was really trying to help him learn a little patience.
I realize some replies to the original posting said to just ask TPWD. Yes, that is the "correct" answer, but I posted it here purposely to create some discussion and highlight some of the uncertainty with the regulations. The variety of conflicting replies pretty much confirmed that.
Last edited by papa45; 01/07/17 05:38 PM.
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Re: AR Restriction Question
[Re: bossbowman]
#6621112
01/07/17 05:48 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,601
sig226fan (Rguns.com)
duck & cover
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duck & cover
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,601 |
Which 4 counties? cause the first 6 counties that experimented with the rule were between austin and san antone not east texas... We can play geo-politics if you want, but I thought Hays and Comal were between Austin and San Antonio (Travis and Bexar); and these counties (4 that asked for it, 2 that TPWD added to the experiment), are East of 35 by a county.... And after growing up in Dalhart, yeah, they are East Texas to me.
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