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Another easement question. #6605818 12/28/16 09:15 PM
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don k Offline OP
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You have a piece of property. There is a piece of property that has to go through yours to get to theirs. They have been doing it for many years. As far As I can tell there is nothing in writing about an easement.One of these days in not the to distant future the owner is going to pass away. When they do there are 3 individuals that will become the new owners. I would imagine that before the former owner is in the ground for long they will want to sell the property. And if memory serves me correctly you would need a deeded easement to borrow money to purchase the property. Is this correct? Also if this is the case does the owner of the property that is traveled through have to give them one?

Re: Another easement question. [Re: don k] #6605827 12/28/16 09:22 PM
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Do any of the prior deeds in the chain of title for either property ever mention of there being an easement?

I wonder if adverse possession could come into play on this one somehow..hmmm good question.


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Re: Another easement question. [Re: Herbie Hancock] #6605993 12/28/16 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted By: Herbie Hancock
Do any of the prior deeds in the chain of title for either property ever mention of there being an easement?

I wonder if adverse possession could come into play on this one somehow..hmmm good question.
None that I know of. I am not trying to not give them access. This is the only way into their property and has been for many years. I am just worried that they would sell it and it becomes a ranchet type of deal. I had another piece of property with a like situation. A couple that traveled through a portion of mine and a couple of others wanted to build a home on their property. They needed a deeded easement to be able to borrow the money for their new home. In this case I gave it to them.

Re: Another easement question. [Re: don k] #6606078 12/29/16 12:58 AM
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I'm in this exact situation. Relevant facts:

Is the access road shared maintenance?
How long has shared road been undisputed?
Is there other means of access to property?

Sounds like a prescriptive easement, but need all facts. On the bank issue, some local banks will still finance it if they're comfortable with valuation. Most nationals won't. May also ask for personal guarantee or additional collateral.

Re: Another easement question. [Re: don k] #6606085 12/29/16 01:04 AM
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If all you have given is permission to your neighbor then that "right" that you gave to him does not transfer to a new owner. You can put conditions in an easement that would not allow subsequent multiple owners the right to use it. Heirs can always sue, this is America. I would want to put the easement in writing so that you can put limitations in the agreement to protect you down the road. Hate to say it but I would get a real estate attorney to put your understanding on the record. It may save you headaches in the future.

Re: Another easement question. [Re: cameron00] #6606275 12/29/16 02:56 AM
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Originally Posted By: cameron00
I'm in this exact situation. Relevant facts:

Is the access road shared maintenance?
How long has shared road been undisputed?
Is there other means of access to property?

Sounds like a prescriptive easement, but need all facts. On the bank issue, some local banks will still finance it if they're comfortable with valuation. Most nationals won't. May also ask for personal guarantee or additional collateral.
No one has ever shared in labor, materials or monies in maintaining the road. The road has been my personal property for around 10 years. Before that a long time. The only other means of access would be through some other owners property.

Re: Another easement question. [Re: jetdad] #6606282 12/29/16 02:59 AM
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Originally Posted By: jetdad
If all you have given is permission to your neighbor then that "right" that you gave to him does not transfer to a new owner. You can put conditions in an easement that would not allow subsequent multiple owners the right to use it. Heirs can always sue, this is America. I would want to put the easement in writing so that you can put limitations in the agreement to protect you down the road. Hate to say it but I would get a real estate attorney to put your understanding on the record. It may save you headaches in the future.
I have never given permission. The road has just always been there.

Re: Another easement question. [Re: don k] #6606333 12/29/16 03:42 AM
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If this has been going on for a very long time you may have given your permission by implication. By not addressing the issue and you have been aware of it that neighbor would have a pretty good case that he has been given permission. The comments above about prescriptive easement and adverse possession probably have merit. You can clean up the situation best by giving the easement to your neighbor under your terms. He may not like what you offer and as I said sue to protect his access. You have a very complicated situation and best to get with a qualified RE attorney to explore the best resolution. Better to address it now than with an adversarial heir. Just my 2cents and worth what you've paid for it.

Re: Another easement question. [Re: don k] #6606640 12/29/16 02:33 PM
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I have a piece of property that my access was always through the previous owners sisters land. I did maintain the road. When she died her heir put a chain and lock on the gate and denied me access.
Even though the roads sole purpose for 50 years was to get into another property a judge ruled that since it wasn't in either deed I was out of luck.
Luckily I had another way in, I just had to build a new road and put in a gate.

Re: Another easement question. [Re: don k] #6606650 12/29/16 02:41 PM
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This road lane or whatever you want to call it has been there before I was born. And I am 70. I don't think you would be able to restrict who gets to use it if the place sells. I am just wondering if you have to give someone a "Easement Grant".And I realize they would have to get a survey and do all the paper work and I would sign it. Not trying to restrict them from access to their property. Just wondering if I would have to agree to give them this Grant.

Re: Another easement question. [Re: don k] #6606715 12/29/16 03:31 PM
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If the nature of your question is in relation to them getting bank financing, you probably would have to give them written agreement of the easement for it to be an actual recorded deeded easement.

The way it's been explained to me, there is a process the court will go through if someone wants a recorded easement.

1. Are the owners being prevented from accessing their property? In your situation, it sounds like a pretty clear "no". Maybe if you sold it, the new owner would try to enforce the privacy of the road and then they'd have to take him to court. But if access is not being restricted and a prescriptive easement is in place, they likely wouldn't take the next step of awarding a deeded easement.

2. Is there other legal access? Maybe they have to drive 10 miles out of their way down a crappy dirt road, but if the property can be accessed legally in any fashion, they won't get a court awarded easement. Sounds like that's not the case for you.

Once they got to the point of establishing that they were being kept from accessing their land and no available options existed, there'd be a process of examination of where to actually establish the easement and the various landowners where it could possibly occur would be consulted and/or asked if they agreed to it. If none did, the court would eventually determine the route of access.

To make a long story short, while a person can't be landlocked legally, it's still a process and a pain in the [censored] to establish legal access. And if you're not restricting them, they won't be able to get it recorded because a prescriptive easement will be deemed to exist.

Re: Another easement question. [Re: don k] #6606929 12/29/16 06:01 PM
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I'm about to start working through a similar situation but on the reverse side. Its about .5 miles off the road and cuts through 2 different properties. 99% of it is through one property and the landowner is cool with our access. The last 50 yards we had access from the previous owner but a new owner has since put stumps and trash blocking car access. There is a creek running along the back which is barely passable to walk so we can technically get back there without crossing the other guys land.

We made it back there and found a deer stand on our land. This land is heavily wooded and connects to his piece of the same woods. We aren't sure yet if he is leasing out the whole woods or not but our section is the only part of the woods connected to the creek. We are going out to post it and start hunting it, making the creek pass if we have to. We also don't want to piss the guy off so much he trespasses when he cans and makes our land un-huntable.

Re: Another easement question. [Re: cameron00] #6606988 12/29/16 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: cameron00
If the nature of your question is in relation to them getting bank financing, you probably would have to give them written agreement of the easement for it to be an actual recorded deeded easement.

The way it's been explained to me, there is a process the court will go through if someone wants a recorded easement.

1. Are the owners being prevented from accessing their property? In your situation, it sounds like a pretty clear "no". Maybe if you sold it, the new owner would try to enforce the privacy of the road and then they'd have to take him to court. But if access is not being restricted and a prescriptive easement is in place, they likely wouldn't take the next step of awarding a deeded easement.

2. Is there other legal access? Maybe they have to drive 10 miles out of their way down a crappy dirt road, but if the property can be accessed legally in any fashion, they won't get a court awarded easement. Sounds like that's not the case for you.

Once they got to the point of establishing that they were being kept from accessing their land and no available options existed, there'd be a process of examination of where to actually establish the easement and the various landowners where it could possibly occur would be consulted and/or asked if they agreed to it. If none did, the court would eventually determine the route of access.

To make a long story short, while a person can't be landlocked legally, it's still a process and a pain in the [censored] to establish legal access. And if you're not restricting them, they won't be able to get it recorded because a prescriptive easement will be deemed to exist.
Thanks. I am not trying to block their access to the property. I knew the original owner and her daughter who got it after that. Both were very good people and I would have done anything for them. The 3 that are going to get it when the present owner passes are not that way. They have messed with me one too many times and I am not going to make it easy for them to sell.

Re: Another easement question. [Re: don k] #6608577 12/30/16 11:03 PM
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Deeded easement is required for all financing i am aware of.

Re: Another easement question. [Re: Leonardo] #6608591 12/30/16 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted By: Leonardo
Deeded easement is required for all financing i am aware of.
So how can they make me give that to them or can they?

Re: Another easement question. [Re: don k] #6608592 12/30/16 11:17 PM
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you need to find out if they have a deeded easement or just a prescriptive easement


do you have a current survey of your property or a title policy?


also, many counties have requirements that necessitate a certain width easement (i.e 60') to be able to subdivide. so for example if they only had a 30' easement they would not be able to subdivide it per county regulations.



For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Another easement question. [Re: jetdad] #6608601 12/30/16 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: jetdad
If all you have given is permission to your neighbor then that "right" that you gave to him does not transfer to a new owner. You can put conditions in an easement that would not allow subsequent multiple owners the right to use it. Heirs can always sue, this is America. I would want to put the easement in writing so that you can put limitations in the agreement to protect you down the road. Hate to say it but I would get a real estate attorney to put your understanding on the record. It may save you headaches in the future.





in this case, if they don't have any other access, Don K's tract is the subservient tract of land and he cannot deny access to that property. what you described is called granting a "license", its just a agreement to give access, can be revoked and conditions placed on it


Easements are tied to the land, not the owners. you cannot restrict access to just a few people, and proving that someone is overburdening an easement is difficult.

a Deeded easement is a Deeded right of way with clear, defined boundaries as shown on a survey. a prescriptive, or use easement, is where access is granted over a tract but is not defined or identified.





Don,

I will be happy to help you in any way I can


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Another easement question. [Re: don k] #6608659 12/31/16 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted By: don k
Originally Posted By: Leonardo
Deeded easement is required for all financing i am aware of.
So how can they make me give that to them or can they?


Fairly certain they can't make you give them a deeded easement for financing purposes but you wont be able to deny them access.

Re: Another easement question. [Re: don k] #6608660 12/31/16 12:04 AM
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TX Trophy knows his stuff and is in your area. I would take him up on his offer to help.

Re: Another easement question. [Re: don k] #6608820 12/31/16 02:11 AM
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When I bought my land I had a deeded easement that I share with another piece of land that we both have to go through twompeoples property to get to. The easement is about 500 yards long and when I went to finance the last 20 yards of the easement was not showing on the plot so they were going to deny my loan. Luckily I was financing through the same place the previous owner had his loan. I told them that didn't make any sense since they currently have a loan against it and they did some more research and I got my new easement layout and loan. Point of the story. I don't think anyone will loan the buyer money if they don't have deeded access


Re: Another easement question. [Re: don k] #6608933 12/31/16 03:30 AM
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I just looked at the deed to the property. There is nothing on it about any easement. I got the property 13 years ago. I had been using the road to access my property for over 40 years. I fenced both sides of the road. I made it 20 ft. wide. I am not trying to restrict anyone from entering their property. Just trying to figure out how easy or hard it would be for them to sell their place.

Re: Another easement question. [Re: don k] #6609052 12/31/16 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted By: don k
I just looked at the deed to the property. There is nothing on it about any easement. I got the property 13 years ago. I had been using the road to access my property for over 40 years. I fenced both sides of the road. I made it 20 ft. wide. I am not trying to restrict anyone from entering their property. Just trying to figure out how easy or hard it would be for them to sell their place.



Pull your title policy and look at the schedule B exceptions and it should be in there


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Another easement question. [Re: txtrophy85] #6609359 12/31/16 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
Originally Posted By: don k
I just looked at the deed to the property. There is nothing on it about any easement. I got the property 13 years ago. I had been using the road to access my property for over 40 years. I fenced both sides of the road. I made it 20 ft. wide. I am not trying to restrict anyone from entering their property. Just trying to figure out how easy or hard it would be for them to sell their place.



Pull your title policy and look at the schedule B exceptions and it should be in there
I don't have a title policy I have a warranty deed. The property was given to me. I took care of a ranch for an individual and when they sold it they gave this part of it to me.

Re: Another easement question. [Re: don k] #6609487 12/31/16 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: don k
Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
Originally Posted By: don k
I just looked at the deed to the property. There is nothing on it about any easement. I got the property 13 years ago. I had been using the road to access my property for over 40 years. I fenced both sides of the road. I made it 20 ft. wide. I am not trying to restrict anyone from entering their property. Just trying to figure out how easy or hard it would be for them to sell their place.



Pull your title policy and look at the schedule B exceptions and it should be in there
I don't have a title policy I have a warranty deed. The property was given to me. I took care of a ranch for an individual and when they sold it they gave this part of it to me.



So you just did a transfer of deed without running it thru a title company?


did the previous owners give you a meets and bounds survey?


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Re: Another easement question. [Re: txtrophy85] #6609527 12/31/16 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
Originally Posted By: don k
Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
Originally Posted By: don k
I just looked at the deed to the property. There is nothing on it about any easement. I got the property 13 years ago. I had been using the road to access my property for over 40 years. I fenced both sides of the road. I made it 20 ft. wide. I am not trying to restrict anyone from entering their property. Just trying to figure out how easy or hard it would be for them to sell their place.



Pull your title policy and look at the schedule B exceptions and it should be in there
I don't have a title policy I have a warranty deed. The property was given to me. I took care of a ranch for an individual and when they sold it they gave this part of it to me.



So you just did a transfer of deed without running it thru a title company?


did the previous owners give you a meets and bounds survey?


Correct it was not run through a title co. Yes I received a meets and bounds survey.

Re: Another easement question. [Re: don k] #6609669 12/31/16 08:04 PM
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Look at the survey. The easement should be referenced on the survey


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Another easement question. [Re: don k] #6609765 12/31/16 09:32 PM
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It is not mentioned. the only thing out of the ordinary in the deed is retaining 1/2 oil gas and mineral rights.

Re: Another easement question. [Re: don k] #6609843 12/31/16 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: don k
It is not mentioned. the only thing out of the ordinary in the deed is retaining 1/2 oil gas and mineral rights.


It won't be mentioned in the deed. Only reservations and exceptions to conveyance.

If there was an easement it should appear on the survey. If not, their legal access may be thru another ranch.


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Re: Another easement question. [Re: don k] #6609846 12/31/16 10:29 PM
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For all the folks following this, this is a prime example of why you should run any transaction thru a title company


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Another easement question. [Re: txtrophy85] #6609927 12/31/16 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
For all the folks following this, this is a prime example of why you should run any transaction thru a title company
I purchased the property that the road continues though the property we are discussing. There are two more individuals that travel through mine to get to their property.I have a title policy for that purchase. No where on it is there any reference of an easement.

Re: Another easement question. [Re: don k] #6610966 01/01/17 07:22 PM
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Something is up then. These people are traveling thru your property but there is no record of any ingress/egress easements on any survey or title policy?

I would def. investigate into this further


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Another easement question. [Re: don k] #6611027 01/01/17 07:50 PM
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These other places have been there for over 60 years that I know of. They have not changed hands except through death and then were not sold except part of one to me. If no one has requested any easements then there would be none on record. The ones next to me are the ones that I know will have to sell when the present owner passes. Non of the 3 that will get the place care about it. There is no way to devide it and please all three. the present owner is a very good person but the ones that will get it are not that way and have messed with me once too often.

Re: Another easement question. [Re: don k] #6669582 02/10/17 06:19 PM
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If this has been used for a few years then it is an easement by perscription...


"You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas".
Re: Another easement question. [Re: snake oil] #6670586 02/11/17 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted By: snake oil
If this has been used for a few years then it is an easement by perscription...
Yes I realize that.But back to the original question. Do they need a written and recorded easement going through my property to borrow money from a lending agency to buy that property? As I said before on another property I own there was a situation almost the same. The owners of the property wanted to build a home. They had to have a written and recorded easement to borrow the money.

Re: Another easement question. [Re: don k] #6670595 02/11/17 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted By: don k
Originally Posted By: snake oil
If this has been used for a few years then it is an easement by perscription...
Yes I realize that.But back to the original question. Do they need a written and recorded easement going through my property to borrow money from a lending agency to buy that property? As I said before on another property I own there was a situation almost the same. The owners of the property wanted to build a home. They had to have a written and recorded easement to borrow the money.



Typically yes. A lender requires title insurance and a policy won't be insured without legal access


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Re: Another easement question. [Re: don k] #6670662 02/11/17 03:34 PM
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If the neighbors are landlocked, and you won't grant them an access easement to a dedicated public road, they have a good argument for an easement by necessity. There are easements in gross that belong to people, but this easement would run with the land and go to subsequent title holders. They don't just acquire an easement through precscriptive rights automatically as stated above. If the statutory time frame for you (original poster) to exclude them has run, then they can go to court in an action to quiet title, claiming easement by necessity and that they have acquired prescriptive title. They sound like they have a good case. There is also a concept called latches. It means if you know of a trespass and sleep on your rights, as you have done for years, the courts likely won't side with you to oust them.

As for tittle insurance and the ability to acquire financing. Some lenders use attorneys to review loans, some don't. Hard to say what a lender might require. That said, a good title company will except to access in Schedule B and a good attorney representing the lender will notice it and tell the lender not to close the loan because the lender won't want to deal with the headache described above if they have to foreclose.

This is not legal advice. Just ramblings. Seek legal advice from an attorney that represents you.

Re: Another easement question. [Re: don k] #6670674 02/11/17 03:42 PM
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You should go talk to txtrophy as it can get pretty complicated. You've also got to watch out for implied easements where if the two places were once the same Tract the law can find that an easement was intended when the places were separated

Re: Another easement question. [Re: Txhuntr2] #6670796 02/11/17 05:25 PM
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don k Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Txhuntr2
If the neighbors are landlocked, and you won't grant them an access easement to a dedicated public road, they have a good argument for an easement by necessity. There are easements in gross that belong to people, but this easement would run with the land and go to subsequent title holders. They don't just acquire an easement through precscriptive rights automatically as stated above. If the statutory time frame for you (original poster) to exclude them has run, then they can go to court in an action to quiet title, claiming easement by necessity and that they have acquired prescriptive title. They sound like they have a good case. There is also a concept called latches. It means if you know of a trespass and sleep on your rights, as you have done for years, the courts likely won't side with you to oust them.

As for tittle insurance and the ability to acquire financing. Some lenders use attorneys to review loans, some don't. Hard to say what a lender might require. That said, a good title company will except to access in Schedule B and a good attorney representing the lender will notice it and tell the lender not to close the loan because the lender won't want to deal with the headache described above if they have to foreclose.

This is not legal advice. Just ramblings. Seek legal advice from an attorney that represents you.
I am not trying to restrict their access to their property. All I want to know is do I have to give them an recorded easement? I know that I cannot deny their access to their property. But as said before I don't want to make it easy for them to get a written and recorded easement when they start wanting to sell the property. It may seem to some that I am being an AH but you don't know what got me to this point.

Re: Another easement question. [Re: don k] #6671339 02/12/17 03:03 AM
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If you choose not to convey an access easement, and they really want a record title interest in the one and only way to access their property, you are probably running a risk that they might try to take you to court in an attempt to acquire one.

Again, you should seek legal advice from a licensed attorney who represents you.

Re: Another easement question. [Re: don k] #6676607 02/16/17 05:52 AM
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Was once in a similar situation. No deeded access is a problem. The legal advice I rec'd suggested the landlocked party was NOT in a strong position. Adjacent owners had no obligation to provide deeded access or any legal access through their property, regardless of past use. Likely the landlocked party would need to say their prayers, ask real nice, and bring their checkbook in hopes of resolving their deeded access problem.

An hour with a local real estate lawyer is needed to know all the options.

Re: Another easement question. [Re: brazoscounty] #6676666 02/16/17 01:06 PM
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don k Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: brazoscounty
Was once in a similar situation. No deeded access is a problem. The legal advice I rec'd suggested the landlocked party was NOT in a strong position. Adjacent owners had no obligation to provide deeded access or any legal access through their property, regardless of past use. Likely the landlocked party would need to say their prayers, ask real nice, and bring their checkbook in hopes of resolving their deeded access problem.

An hour with a local real estate lawyer is needed to know all the options.
Until the time comes I am not going to do anything.

Re: Another easement question. [Re: don k] #6681508 02/20/17 07:44 PM
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I love my places that are at the end of the road with deeded easements for this reason.


Crotchety old bastidge
Re: Another easement question. [Re: don k] #6686693 02/25/17 05:44 AM
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I thought I might try and assist with this inquiry. From what I read, both brazoscounty and Txhunter2 have given you good advice in their respective posts above. Especially, regarding their advice to consult with a competent real estate attorney. Several of us responding to your query have dealt expressly with similar issue, either practically or otherwise, and some of us may or may not be legal professionals - however, you should employ your own counsel, who is considerably experienced in these matters. As previously stated, an hour of time with a good real estate attorney, will be money well-spent. As they say, the horse is at the trough.

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