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permit-less carry
#6572776
12/05/16 06:54 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 528
fishfree
OP
Tracker
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OP
Tracker
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 528 |
In Texas, the push is being spearheaded by state representative Jonathan Stickland (R-92nd) via HB 375. The text of HB 375 is clear: “Notwithstanding any other law to the contrary, a person who is not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing a firearm shall not be required to obtain any license to carry a handgun as a condition for carrying a handgun.” The 2nd Amendment A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. Davis v. Wechsler , 263 US 22, 24. “Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which would abrogate them.”
Miranda v. Arizona, 384 U.S. 426, 491; 86 S. Ct. 1603 "Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no 'rule making' or legislation which would abrogate them." Murdock v. Pennsylvania, 319 U.S. 105 "No state shall convert a liberty into a license, and charge a fee therefore."
ABOUT TIME!
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Re: permit-less carry
[Re: fishfree]
#6572938
12/05/16 08:29 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 300
Texasredneck70
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 300 |
Would be nice to save some money
B
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Re: permit-less carry
[Re: fishfree]
#6573043
12/05/16 09:36 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,420
RedRanger
THF Celebrity
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,420 |
I don't see Texas allowing constitutional carry, they want the fees and renewal fees.
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Re: permit-less carry
[Re: fishfree]
#6573162
12/05/16 10:38 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,227
Marc K
Veteran Tracker
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Maybe someday, but think about how long it took just to get where we are now.....
Concealed carry in Texas has only been in place since the mid 90's if I recall correctly - which was 10-15 years after many other states. Heck, I had friends in California with concealed carry permits 20 years before Texas legalized it!
Now think about the fact that it took us an additional 20 years to get open carry rights here in Texas.
Marc
A Democracy is when two wolves and a lamb vote on the dinner menu. That is why this country was specifically not designed as a Democracy. We are a Constitutional Republic.
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Re: permit-less carry
[Re: fishfree]
#6576674
12/07/16 11:32 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 776
piney woods hunter
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 776 |
main problem i see is texas giveing up permitt fee,s. but is happening i think 12 states now have permittless carry
NRA all the way god guns and guts made us free , i want all three
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Re: permit-less carry
[Re: fishfree]
#6576676
12/07/16 11:35 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 776
piney woods hunter
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 776 |
marc they said never to concelded in texas and also to open so there is a hope,but i think it will be a few seassions and a few more states ahead of us,
NRA all the way god guns and guts made us free , i want all three
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Re: permit-less carry
[Re: fishfree]
#6577159
12/08/16 12:48 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 31,055
HWY_MAN
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 31,055 |
Good thing is the LT Governor is behind this also.
Yes! A Weatherby does kill them deader.
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Re: permit-less carry
[Re: fishfree]
#6578485
12/09/16 03:33 AM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,466
Jkd106
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,466 |
I agree it will be about the fees
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Re: permit-less carry
[Re: fishfree]
#6578550
12/09/16 04:36 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 116
Tikka270wsm
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 116 |
Was always about the fees.The BS part is we pay a tax to be able to use our constitutional right.
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Re: permit-less carry
[Re: fishfree]
#6579601
12/09/16 10:06 PM
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 87
JYG71
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 87 |
oh the stuff dreams are made of, hopefully in my lifetime constitutional carry will be allowed.
The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.
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Re: permit-less carry
[Re: fishfree]
#6581308
12/11/16 02:12 AM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,806
Deerhunter61
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,806 |
I believe that there needs to be something in place that requires anyone who wants to carry to be proficient, or at least have a clue, with how to handle a firearm.
When my wife and I went thru the class it was mind-numbing how many in the class had never fired a firearm and frankly it was obvious when we went to the range and they tried to load a fire the weapon.
These are the guys that would be allowed to carry without any oversight? Back in the day our Dad's taught us firearm safety, at least mine taught me. Nowadays most children grow up in a fatherless home with no one there to teach them gun safety and how to shoot. If you have ever been to a public range you will see these guys and girls trying to figure things out of their own pointing their weapon at everyone etc.
And you want to allow them to carry? It is our right to own and bear arms but society is different now. Just like there is now hunters ed there needs to be firearms ed as well before people should be allowed to carry.
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Re: permit-less carry
[Re: fishfree]
#6582062
12/11/16 08:02 PM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 327
tehachapi
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 327 |
How about passing a law that states everyone must carry a weapon. Have mandatory firearms training in high school. Then charge a fee to not carry one. Problem of fees solved.
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Re: permit-less carry
[Re: fishfree]
#6588292
12/15/16 06:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,014
DesertHunting
Veteran Tracker
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,014 |
Who does the federal constitution regulate? Not the people...
The federal government. Meaning the federal government can't make laws prohibiting your right to carry or own fire arms.
Your right to own and carry firearms is not just a 2A right but also a 10A right. Anything not relegated to the federal government is reserved to the states or the people.
In Texas we have constitutional carry.
Texas State Constitution Sec. 23. RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS. Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of himself or the State; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime.
"No one is sayin you can't own a gun. NO one is saying you can't carry a gun. You just can't carry a gun..." without a license.
This right is reserved to the state and the state is well within the confines of the federal constitution to do so.
History teachers have done a huge disservice to America by not teaching the constitution correctly and our SC is proof.
Until the Texas Constitution is changed, we can cry 2A all we want, it means nothing.
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Re: permit-less carry
[Re: DesertHunting]
#6596213
12/21/16 04:58 AM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,469
vanguard
Veteran Tracker
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,469 |
Who does the federal constitution regulate? Not the people...
The federal government. Meaning the federal government can't make laws prohibiting your right to carry or own fire arms.
Your right to own and carry firearms is not just a 2A right but also a 10A right. Anything not relegated to the federal government is reserved to the states or the people.
In Texas we have constitutional carry.
Texas State Constitution Sec. 23. RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS. Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of himself or the State; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime.
wrong wrong wrong. whats not spefically in the constitution and not given to the feds is reserved to the states. the 2nd is specifally stated in the constitution just as the 1st, the state has no right regulating or requiring a license to speak freely and has no right to regulate your right to carry either. whats in the constitution is off limits to the feds and to the states
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Re: permit-less carry
[Re: fishfree]
#6596359
12/21/16 12:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,014
DesertHunting
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,014 |
Hate to tell you this, but you have no idea how to read the constitution.
Read the preamble to the bill of rights. It states that the limits are for the FEDERAL government.
Only four states do not have a 2A mirror in their state constitution, all 46 others have regulations concerning the keeping and bearing of arms. The only reason why Chicagos hand gun ban was ruled unconstitutional by the SC was that it exceeded the state constitution and completely did away with both keeping and bearing. The Keller decision was ruled on the constitutional provision that Washington DC is FEDERAL territory, they are not a state. If I am wrong, then every state that has CHL is in violation of the constitution and you should file a brief with the SC...you won't get far. Not because of politics, but because I'm right...there is no jurisdiction for the federal government where the regulating of arms does not remove the right to keep and bear.
Too much weight has been given to the federal government that was never intended.
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Re: permit-less carry
[Re: Deerhunter61]
#6597715
12/22/16 04:24 AM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,694
krmitchell
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,694 |
I believe that there needs to be something in place that requires anyone who wants to carry to be proficient, or at least have a clue, with how to handle a firearm.
When my wife and I went thru the class it was mind-numbing how many in the class had never fired a firearm and frankly it was obvious when we went to the range and they tried to load a fire the weapon.
These are the guys that would be allowed to carry without any oversight? Back in the day our Dad's taught us firearm safety, at least mine taught me. Nowadays most children grow up in a fatherless home with no one there to teach them gun safety and how to shoot. If you have ever been to a public range you will see these guys and girls trying to figure things out of their own pointing their weapon at everyone etc.
And you want to allow them to carry? It is our right to own and bear arms but society is different now. Just like there is now hunters ed there needs to be firearms ed as well before people should be allowed to carry. And how many of those people didn't pass the test? The CHL shooting test is a pretty big joke. The class I was in rented guns out to people since they didn't own one. Is it scary? Yes. Does someone passing the CHL shooting test make me feel safer? Not really. The only part of the CHL class that is worth a damn in my opinion is the education about laws, etc. At least people can leave there knowing when they can/can't shoot/draw their weapon, etc. I asked the instructor how many people they had failed in the past and they said not a single one. Actually only one person had to take the shooting test a second time out of every class they offered. That tells me that the shooting test is worthless if on one is failing. (I know that people do fail it but it is such a small number nothing has been accomplished there.
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Re: permit-less carry
[Re: krmitchell]
#6597815
12/22/16 09:38 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,420
RedRanger
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,420 |
And how many of those people didn't pass the test? The CHL shooting test is a pretty big joke. The class I was in rented guns out to people since they didn't own one. Is it scary? Yes. Does someone passing the CHL shooting test make me feel safer? Not really. Yes, the shooting part is a waste of time. More than likely if you had to shoot it would be from close range. Even the Dallas police only has like a 25% hit rate when they shoot their weapons.
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Re: permit-less carry
[Re: RedRanger]
#6599536
12/23/16 01:55 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,181
ntxtrapper
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
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Posts: 12,181 |
And how many of those people didn't pass the test? The CHL shooting test is a pretty big joke. The class I was in rented guns out to people since they didn't own one. Is it scary? Yes. Does someone passing the CHL shooting test make me feel safer? Not really. Yes, the shooting part is a waste of time. More than likely if you had to shoot it would be from close range. Even the Dallas police only has like a 25% hit rate when they shoot their weapons. Not correct information. These are the annual licensing requirements for every peace officer in the state. (1) handguns - a minimum of 50 rounds, fired at ranges from point-blank to at least 15 yards with at least 20 rounds at or beyond seven yards, including at least one timed reload; (2) shotguns - a minimum of five rounds of ammunition fired at a range of at least 15 yards; (3) precision rifles - a minimum of 20 rounds of ammunition fired at a range of at least 100 yards; however, an agency may, in its discretion, allow a range of less than 100 yards but not less than 50 yards if the minimum passing percentage is raised to 90; (4) patrol rifles - a minimum of 30 rounds of ammunition fired at a range of at least 50 yards, including at least one timed reload; however, an agency may, in its discretion, allow a range of less than 50 yards but not less than 10 yards if the minimum passing percentage is raised to 90; (5) fully automatic weapons - a minimum of 30 rounds of ammunition fired at ranges from seven to at least 10 yards, including at least one timed reload, with at least 25 rounds fired in full automatic (short bursts of two or three rounds), and at least five rounds fired semi-automatic, if possible with the weapon. (d) The minimum passing percentage shall be 70 for each firearm. (e) The executive director may, upon written agency request, waive a peace officer's demonstration of weapons proficiency based on a determination that the requirement causes a hardship. (f) The effective date of this section is February 1, 2016.
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Re: permit-less carry
[Re: ntxtrapper]
#6599658
12/23/16 03:10 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,420
RedRanger
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,420 |
And how many of those people didn't pass the test? The CHL shooting test is a pretty big joke. The class I was in rented guns out to people since they didn't own one. Is it scary? Yes. Does someone passing the CHL shooting test make me feel safer? Not really. Yes, the shooting part is a waste of time. More than likely if you had to shoot it would be from close range. Even the Dallas police only has like a 25% hit rate when they shoot their weapons. Not correct information. These are the annual licensing requirements for every peace officer in the state. (1) handguns - a minimum of 50 rounds, fired at ranges from point-blank to at least 15 yards with at least 20 rounds at or beyond seven yards, including at least one timed reload; (2) shotguns - a minimum of five rounds of ammunition fired at a range of at least 15 yards; (3) precision rifles - a minimum of 20 rounds of ammunition fired at a range of at least 100 yards; however, an agency may, in its discretion, allow a range of less than 100 yards but not less than 50 yards if the minimum passing percentage is raised to 90; (4) patrol rifles - a minimum of 30 rounds of ammunition fired at a range of at least 50 yards, including at least one timed reload; however, an agency may, in its discretion, allow a range of less than 50 yards but not less than 10 yards if the minimum passing percentage is raised to 90; (5) fully automatic weapons - a minimum of 30 rounds of ammunition fired at ranges from seven to at least 10 yards, including at least one timed reload, with at least 25 rounds fired in full automatic (short bursts of two or three rounds), and at least five rounds fired semi-automatic, if possible with the weapon. (d) The minimum passing percentage shall be 70 for each firearm. (e) The executive director may, upon written agency request, waive a peace officer's demonstration of weapons proficiency based on a determination that the requirement causes a hardship. (f) The effective date of this section is February 1, 2016. I am not talking about shooting at the range, I am talking about when they actually have to use their weapon in the field.
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Re: permit-less carry
[Re: Tikka270wsm]
#6600849
12/24/16 11:26 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,615
billybob
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,615 |
Was always about the fees.The BS part is we pay a tax to be able to use our constitutional right. Can't imagine it's about the fees...there are approximately 1 Mil CHL holders in TX. Some pay $70 some pay $140 to the state EVERY 5 years. That hardly pays for the administration of the process. Whether there is a license required or not...someone will have to pay for the background investigation. Don't want it coming out of my federal taxes or any state sales tax.
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Re: permit-less carry
[Re: DesertHunting]
#6600922
12/24/16 01:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,469
vanguard
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,469 |
Hate to tell you this, but you have no idea how to read the constitution.
Read the preamble to the bill of rights. It states that the limits are for the FEDERAL government.
Only four states do not have a 2A mirror in their state constitution, all 46 others have regulations concerning the keeping and bearing of arms. The only reason why Chicagos hand gun ban was ruled unconstitutional by the SC was that it exceeded the state constitution and completely did away with both keeping and bearing. The Keller decision was ruled on the constitutional provision that Washington DC is FEDERAL territory, they are not a state. If I am wrong, then every state that has CHL is in violation of the constitution and you should file a brief with the SC...you won't get far. Not because of politics, but because I'm right...there is no jurisdiction for the federal government where the regulating of arms does not remove the right to keep and bear.
Too much weight has been given to the federal government that was never intended. are you saying the state has a right to regulate the bill of rights
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Re: permit-less carry
[Re: DesertHunting]
#6600934
12/24/16 02:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,469
vanguard
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,469 |
Hate to tell you this, but you have no idea how to read the constitution.
Read the preamble to the bill of rights. It states that the limits are for the FEDERAL government.
Only four states do not have a 2A mirror in their state constitution, all 46 others have regulations concerning the keeping and bearing of arms. The only reason why Chicagos hand gun ban was ruled unconstitutional by the SC was that it exceeded the state constitution and completely did away with both keeping and bearing. The Keller decision was ruled on the constitutional provision that Washington DC is FEDERAL territory, they are not a state. If I am wrong, then every state that has CHL is in violation of the constitution and you should file a brief with the SC...you won't get far. Not because of politics, but because I'm right...there is no jurisdiction for the federal government where the regulating of arms does not remove the right to keep and bear.
Too much weight has been given to the federal government that was never intended. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. tell me how the the state has a right to regulate your right to due process, or your freedom of speech then tell me how that transfers to the right to keep and bear arms
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Re: permit-less carry
[Re: RedRanger]
#6601850
12/25/16 06:04 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,181
ntxtrapper
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,181 |
And how many of those people didn't pass the test? The CHL shooting test is a pretty big joke. The class I was in rented guns out to people since they didn't own one. Is it scary? Yes. Does someone passing the CHL shooting test make me feel safer? Not really. Yes, the shooting part is a waste of time. More than likely if you had to shoot it would be from close range. Even the Dallas police only has like a 25% hit rate when they shoot their weapons. Not correct information. These are the annual licensing requirements for every peace officer in the state. (1) handguns - a minimum of 50 rounds, fired at ranges from point-blank to at least 15 yards with at least 20 rounds at or beyond seven yards, including at least one timed reload; (2) shotguns - a minimum of five rounds of ammunition fired at a range of at least 15 yards; (3) precision rifles - a minimum of 20 rounds of ammunition fired at a range of at least 100 yards; however, an agency may, in its discretion, allow a range of less than 100 yards but not less than 50 yards if the minimum passing percentage is raised to 90; (4) patrol rifles - a minimum of 30 rounds of ammunition fired at a range of at least 50 yards, including at least one timed reload; however, an agency may, in its discretion, allow a range of less than 50 yards but not less than 10 yards if the minimum passing percentage is raised to 90; (5) fully automatic weapons - a minimum of 30 rounds of ammunition fired at ranges from seven to at least 10 yards, including at least one timed reload, with at least 25 rounds fired in full automatic (short bursts of two or three rounds), and at least five rounds fired semi-automatic, if possible with the weapon. (d) The minimum passing percentage shall be 70 for each firearm. (e) The executive director may, upon written agency request, waive a peace officer's demonstration of weapons proficiency based on a determination that the requirement causes a hardship. (f) The effective date of this section is February 1, 2016. I am not talking about shooting at the range, I am talking about when they actually have to use their weapon in the field. 10-4. I'd be shocked if it's that high with agencies across the state. Officers who are involved in shootouts are routinely also dealing with the foot chase, the darkness and shooting through glass. All those, as well as other factors, are going to lower the success rate. Most citizen shootouts involving an armed law abiding person and a criminal which I have responded to, are extremely close range, where proficiency with the firearm is pretty moot.
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Re: permit-less carry
[Re: fishfree]
#6605079
12/28/16 05:05 AM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,469
vanguard
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,469 |
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Re: permit-less carry
[Re: fishfree]
#6608115
12/30/16 04:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 11,248
Longhunter
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Posts: 11,248 |
I'm all for permit-less carry, just wondering how it would effect state to state reciprocity...
Longhunter >>>-------> Make It Count!!!<><
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