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#6564324 - 11/29/16 03:42 PM What constitutes a tight group for a carry gun?
Texas Dan Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 11272
Everyone pays a lot of attention to how well their rifle shoots tight groups. And yet, I can't remember ever seeing a post around here focusing on what constitutes as being a tight shooting handgun.

For the person looking to spend some time at the range with their carry gun, what should be their goal in hitting paper at a given distance?
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Dan,

Spring, Texas

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#6564376 - 11/29/16 04:14 PM Re: What constitutes a tight group for a carry? [Re: Texas Dan]
glb1955 Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 07/21/11
Posts: 305
Loc: Brazos County Texas
If you are a target shooter then all in the Bullseye. If you are a combat shooter then center mass. When I teach a class, before putting up any targets, I get the back of a target and draw circles on it. I use a roll of duct tape (inside) and draw circles on the paper. Single tap until you are comfortable and then try some double taps. The better you get the faster you should get. If you want to make yourself better then put a small dot in the center of the circle and always shoot at it. If you are shooting correctly, and you have a decent weapon you can shoot well, then you should start seeing tighter groups. Aim small, miss small.

g

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#6564451 - 11/29/16 05:10 PM Re: What constitutes a tight group for a carry? [Re: Texas Dan]
syncerus Online   content
Pro Tracker

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 1993
Loc: Dallas, TX
reliability > accuracy for carry. Within the bounds of sanity, of course.
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#6564454 - 11/29/16 05:14 PM Re: What constitutes a tight group for a carry? [Re: Texas Dan]
SingleShot85 Offline


Registered: 05/27/09
Posts: 1750
Loc: S.A. and Kinney Co.
2 to the chest, one to the head is just about right for me
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"That the people have a Right to MASS and to bear arms; that a well regulated militia composed of the Body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper natural and safe defense of a free State..."
- George Mason

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#6564467 - 11/29/16 05:25 PM Re: What constitutes a tight group for a carry? [Re: Texas Dan]
Texan Til I Die Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 1760
Loc: Central Texas
I carry a S&W 637-2 and practice out to 25 yards with it. At 25 yards my goal is to put 2 hits on a human silhouette target (think it's the B-27 size?) in 3 seconds. That's typically a 12 - 14 inch group or somewhere in that neighborhood. With bigger handguns like my 1911 I can shrink the group considerably. I don't think I've ever fired one from the bench for grouping other than an initial sight-in for the ones with adjustable sights.
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Silver spurs and gold tequila
keep me hanging on.
Pretty girls and old cantinas
give me shelter from the storm.

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#6564471 - 11/29/16 05:27 PM Re: What constitutes a tight group for a carry? [Re: SingleShot85]
BigPig Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 08/27/09
Posts: 9528
Loc: Forney, Tx
Originally Posted By: SingleShot85
2 to the chest, one to the head is just about right for me


Bam! Everybody need to practice that.

Went to the range with the wife today, I made her uncomfortable and put her at 12 yards instead of letting her pick the 3 or 7 yard. I used a target designed for rifles, it has 5 diamonds to shoot at. She had her Sig P238, which is a small frame 380. She started with the biggest target in the middle, prob a 4x4 diamond. She ran 2 mags into it. Then 1 mag per diamond that was 2x2. She was very frustrated at the groups of the 2x2 diamonds because they didn't hit the bullseye, but once I explained to her that she still kept 7 shots within a 3 inch group she was happy.

I think accuracy is relative to the particular gun. Small pistols are less accurate generally than full size because of the shorter sight plane.

I cannot shoot small groups with a pistol, but I also don't train for that. All my shooting is based on combat, quick follow ups, which will open up groups. That being said, in a 50 round qual course, varying from 3-25 yards, I keep about a 10 inch group. The more I focus on shooting tight groups the more I shake, it just isn't going to happen standing unsupported.

I think that if somebody, can keep all their shots on a human size sillohuet at 25 yards than they are plenty accurate enough for defense
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Originally Posted By: bill oxner
Ever spit it out rather than swallow it?

Originally Posted By: pegasaurus
Enjoy it while you can. One day you might be complaining about NOT getting random pop-ups in the morning. grin

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#6564486 - 11/29/16 05:38 PM Re: What constitutes a tight group for a carry? [Re: Texas Dan]
TexFlip Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 08/18/12
Posts: 8643
Loc: Harris County
One fist size hole at 15 yards aughta do.
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#6564518 - 11/29/16 05:54 PM Re: What constitutes a tight group for a carry? [Re: Texas Dan]
Texas Dan Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 11272
All good posts.

Being able to put a given number of bullets into the target area in a given amount of time is something that many probably overlook, including yours truly.
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Dan,

Spring, Texas

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#6564538 - 11/29/16 06:06 PM Re: What constitutes a tight group for a carry? [Re: TexFlip]
maximum Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 09/30/09
Posts: 1511
Originally Posted By: TexFlip
One fist size hole at 15 yards oughta do.

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

any farther and it's time for a long gun

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#6564575 - 11/29/16 06:24 PM Re: What constitutes a tight group for a carry? [Re: Texas Dan]
LFD2037 Online   happy
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 6338
Loc: TEXAS
I'd say a 10" group from 10yds. of @ least 5 rounds in 5 seconds & that's good enough.
Tighter group, faster time, more rounds is always better!!!!
When we shoot pistols, we do it on the move or from behind/around obstacles. We try to make it realistic in what could happen in the real world. It's a game changer shooting while briskly walking on rough terrain.
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#6564710 - 11/29/16 07:21 PM Re: What constitutes a tight group for a carry? [Re: Texas Dan]
okstatefan Offline
Tracker

Registered: 01/26/13
Posts: 813
Loc: Forney, TX
I regularly practice rapid fire, target acquisition, and shooting and moving; but I'm blessed with a private range membership that encourages these practices and it set up for drills. Even with that, some days I'm just better than others. We did a drill last month were we ran 4 20yd shuttles, moved into firing position, drew our weapon, and made three hits on four targets from 7 yards to 25. The fourth time through the drill, it took me six shots to get three on target at 25 yards. A buddy had to reload on the fly because he only had a 14 round magazine and had four fliers on the 25. Under stress with adrenaline, those groups sure do open up quickly.

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#6564808 - 11/29/16 07:50 PM Re: What constitutes a tight group for a carry? [Re: LFD2037]
BigPig Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 08/27/09
Posts: 9528
Loc: Forney, Tx
Originally Posted By: LFD2037
I'd say a 10" group from 10yds. of @ least 5 rounds in 5 seconds & that's good enough.
Tighter group, faster time, more rounds is always better!!!!
When we shoot pistols, we do it on the move or from behind/around obstacles. We try to make it realistic in what could happen in the real world. It's a game changer shooting while briskly walking on rough terrain.


On our qual we draw from holster when the target turns to face, fire 5 in 8 seconds. A lot harder than it sounds since its reactionary. 5 in 5 isn't hard, but throw in in the rest and it feels like you have 2 seconds to accomplish the task
_________________________
Originally Posted By: bill oxner
Ever spit it out rather than swallow it?

Originally Posted By: pegasaurus
Enjoy it while you can. One day you might be complaining about NOT getting random pop-ups in the morning. grin

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#6564811 - 11/29/16 07:51 PM Re: What constitutes a tight group for a carry? [Re: okstatefan]
BigPig Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 08/27/09
Posts: 9528
Loc: Forney, Tx
Originally Posted By: okstatefan
I regularly practice rapid fire, target acquisition, and shooting and moving; but I'm blessed with a private range membership that encourages these practices and it set up for drills. Even with that, some days I'm just better than others. We did a drill last month were we ran 4 20yd shuttles, moved into firing position, drew our weapon, and made three hits on four targets from 7 yards to 25. The fourth time through the drill, it took me six shots to get three on target at 25 yards. A buddy had to reload on the fly because he only had a 14 round magazine and had four fliers on the 25. Under stress with adrenaline, those groups sure do open up quickly.


That's good practice that most don't get and never think about. Shoot and move and move to some damn cover!

Where are you shooting at?
_________________________
Originally Posted By: bill oxner
Ever spit it out rather than swallow it?

Originally Posted By: pegasaurus
Enjoy it while you can. One day you might be complaining about NOT getting random pop-ups in the morning. grin

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#6564841 - 11/29/16 08:03 PM Re: What constitutes a tight group for a carry? [Re: BigPig]
okstatefan Offline
Tracker

Registered: 01/26/13
Posts: 813
Loc: Forney, TX
Originally Posted By: BigPig


That's good practice that most don't get and never think about. Shoot and move and move to some damn cover!

Where are you shooting at?


It was Fusion Gun Range just south of Forney. They have recently closed that facility and consolidated to Lone Star Gun Club on Lawson Rd in Mesquite. Due to my son's swim meets and Thanksgiving Holiday, I haven't been to the new facility yet. I'm hoping to get there this Sunday and see how the "combat range" compares. There were two guys doing the same drill with carbines, an AKM and an AR15. They were petered out after the fourth run.

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#6564983 - 11/29/16 09:24 PM Re: What constitutes a tight group for a carry? [Re: Texas Dan]
patriot07 Offline
Tracker

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 961
Loc: Royse City, TX
I don't worry about accuracy out of a carry gun. They are not gonna run through bullets to get you. My Kel Tec is acceptably accurate for its uses.

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