I see no way that they could tell that the driver had a LTC, even if the owner did. In the state of Texas law enforcement may only get a list of LTC holders in the county in case of an emergency and for the purpose of calling on them for help.

I was going on to FT. Hood and getting a pass. The enlisted man behind the desk asked me if I was carrying. Everything is on the computer, is it hard to imagine that they have a software that allows them to look at a license plate and pull up that info in real time?

I see no way that they could tell that the driver had a LTC, even if the owner did. In the state of Texas law enforcement may only get a list of LTC holders in the county in case of an emergency and for the purpose of calling on them for help.

I got pulled over the other day for failing to use a turn signal. W/in 1 minute of the LEO getting to my window dispatch comes back over the radio & says "LTC holder". They have that info. @ the push of a button.

I got pulled over the other day for failing to use a turn signal. W/in 1 minute of the LEO getting to my window dispatch comes back over the radio & says "LTC holder". They have that info. @ the push of a button.

Reminds me of the case n Ft Worth in February. A guy was open carryng, LEO asked for his carry permit, he refused to show it. Goes to jail. While in jail they find out he has no LTC. Charges got ramped up but were dropped by the DA because the initial request for identfication by the LEO violated the 4th ammendment. They can't stop and search just for the sake of stopping and searching. Even if some computer tells the LEO the owner of the vehicle is a LTC holder, stopping just for that reason would violate the 4th ammendmant.

The original version of Texas' "open carry" law had a provision for LEO's to randomly ask carriers for their LTC, Greg Abbot had it purged based on the 4th.

No, pretty sure thay can't do that, which is the reasn the case in Ft Worth in February got dismissed. There was a thread on here about it back n March, I think.

edited to add: The guy's name is Brett Sanders, Ijust looked it up to check myself.

Yep, open carry is not sufficient cause to ID. Or, I should say, you don't have to provide ID just because you're open carrying. An officer can ask for ID but cannot demand it unless there's some other violation.

In Texas, a police officer's observation of a person carrying a handgun, illegal knife, or club, is enough for that officer to believe the person is violating Texas Penal Code 46.02. The burden then shifts to the person carrying the handgun to demonstrate to the officer that he is protected by Texas Penal Code 46.15(b)(6) and is exempt from 46.02 by carrying his handgun license. Texas law generally prohibits carrying a handgun for which there are several exceptions or defenses (Texas Law treats them the same for procedural and evidentiary purposes), it's not the other way around. If Texas law generally allowed the carrying of handguns (like it does for long guns) and only criminalized it for selected groups (like felons) then you would be right in that the police could not stop a person unless they had reasonable suspicion that the person was prohibited from carrying a handgun.

If a police officer observes a person carrying a handgun (whether open or concealed) the only way he is going to know that the person is not illegally carrying a handgun in violation of Texas Penal Code 46.02 is for that person to demonstrate that he is also carrying his handgun license in compliance with Texas Penal Code 46.15(b)(6). It's not about producing identification, it's about proving that 46.02 doesn't apply to the person carrying. It just happens to involve producing an identification card known as the handgun license.

This rule does not apply to long guns. In Texas when a person is openly carrying a rifle or shotgun, they are not violating Texas Penal Code 46.02 and therefore they are not required to identify themselves. However, when a person is carrying a handgun, whether concealed or open after January 1, 2016, the police have probable cause to believe that they are committing a crime until it is demonstrated that the handgun carrier is covered by the protections of Texas Penal Code 46.15(b)(6) by showing that they are in possession of their handgun license. In fact, unless the person is in actual, physical possession of their license, they DO NOT get the protection afforded by Texas Penal Code 46.15(b)(6).

The interaction between the crime set forth in 46.02 and the non-applicability circumstances of 46.15 with regard to a police officer’s ability to have probable cause was very succinctly stated by a U.S. District Court in Houston in a case involving a man who asserted that the police did not have probable cause to arrest him because he was carrying a handgun while traveling (which is also a non-applicable circumstance under 46.15). The judge wrote: “Probable cause exists when law enforcement officers have, at the moment the arrest is made, knowledge of reasonably trustworthy facts and circumstances to warrant a belief by a prudent person that an offense has been or is being committed. That certain defenses or exceptions might ultimately apply to shield the arrestee from criminal liability does not negate an officer’s reasonable belief that an offense is being committed. Thus, when officers found Defendant with a handgun in his waistband, they reasonably believed that he was committing the offense of unlawfully carrying a weapon, and probable cause existed for his arrest.”

Please read Texas Penal Code 46.02, it is a crime to carry a handgun in Texas. If you are then accused of committing this crime but feel that it does not apply to you (having a license is just one of several excuses) then YOU have to make the police aware of that. There is no law, Constitutional or otherwise, that requires the police to assume that a person carrying a handgun is exempt from 46.02. The opposite is true. The wording of 46.02 allows the police to reasonably believe that criminal activity is occurring. That is why the Dutton/Huffines amendment was so very necessary. It would have codified a legal standard of reasonable suspicion with regard to carrying a handgun in a shoulder or belt holster that is not currently present in the law.

If you are thinking, “But what about my 4th Amendment Rights?! What about my right to privacy against government intrusion?” - We are on the exact same page. Unfortunately, Fourth Amendment jurisprudence and the wording of the Texas Penal Code, allow the police to stop a person they see open carrying and verify that the person is also carrying their handgun license. If any Texas Law Shield member is arrested and prosecuted for the crime of unlawfully carrying a handgun while they were in possession of their valid Texas or other state's recognized handgun license, Texas Law Shield will be there to defend them.

Tht's odd, while I don't agree with what Mr. Sanders did, he was setting the LEO up for failure from the beginning. He already had an atty ready to step in when he unlawfully carried (remember he had no LTC) and he was released in 3 hours free of all charges.

I think you are incorrect. The law originally had an amendment tacked on that forbid officers asking someone open carrying for their license for no other reason. That was taken out and LEO's are allowed to ask you to provide identification just because you are open carrying.