I got myself into a predicament, before the crazy reload rush of 2013 I had a setup and dialed in an accurate hunting load running 178gr Amax that had an identical point of aim as the sierra match king factory loads. I could never get a load to outperform the match kings so I basically gave up on loading but had 50 rounds of my amax "hunting" loads ready to go. Well after a target rich weekend I'm down to 5 reloads and no desire to setup a whole loading rig. So what factory load do you shoot that had as close to the same poi to match king that is at least somewhat readily available. If I get back into long range shooting I like having my zero stop and torrents set to the match load.

No way to tell, but you need to sight in your gun for any load you are going to hunt with, don't just buy something and assume its on.

A 165 Sierra Game king is same POI in my 308. But this is in my rifle. If you stick with a similar bullet and bullet weight, it has the best chance of having the least amount of POI shift.

Freedom Munitions sells new and remanufactured .308 165 grain A-Max.

THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Don't try to cut a corner or save a bit of time and then miss the animal of a lifetime because you did.

It's a 168 A-max. Same thing I load, but better (of course!)!

http://dallasreloads.com/product/168-a-max/

Yep, I need reading glasses in every room now....

You compared the factory loaded or one of your own recipes?

Would certainly site in a new load and compare, but just trying to figure out what load to start with. Really don't want to invest $100s in finding a load when I could just spend $400 to get a loader back up and running.

You won't spend a ton finding a load for a .308. It's one of the easiest cartridges to make shoot. That's why FGGM does so well in almost every .308 out there. If you want a good hunting load, for a given bullet you can get the same reply from many people. For instance a 165 SGK and H-Varget. It's a classic load that many people's rifles shoot almost exact same load well. I'd tell you my load from five years ago, but I don't have it memorized.

If you're talking a 178 A-Max, well then the answer is 44.0-45.0 gr of H-Varget. I've yet to see on not come alive somewhere in that range. I think add a grain for the 165 weight bullet. Chad can confirm or deny that.

This group is with 168 Nosler Ballistic Tips for the .308, it took me one range session and 15 rounds to find the load. It's easy to get the .308 to shoot. All the groups measured .5 MOA or less. Ignore the holes with the X on them, it was junk bullets I loaded up to fireform my 7mm brass.

2 things are going to change up your POI- 1- different bullet design and 2- velocity

You see often hunters sight in with a 168 SMK (or similar match bullet) and then change up the bullet and hunt with a 165 grain Barnes solid bullet. They expect them to shoot to the same POI. The bullet design totally changed, and will cause a POI shift. The lead bullet is shorter in length, and the copper bullet much longer, as well as the bearing surface. This changes the harmonics of the barrel creating a new POI. Either bullet can still shoot very well (tight groups), but each bullet may have their own POI shift. When sighted in with a 168 SMK, if you keep the new bullet close to the same shape and weight, it has the best chance with no to minimal POI shift. The 165 Game King is near identical to the 168 match king, and has shown no POI shift in my 308's. A heavier/lighter bullet would show a greater POI shift, also.

Velocity alone will change up POI. If a round is faster, then it generally impacts high. If a round is slower, it generally impacts lower. I can take the same rifle and same bullet, and alter the POI by increasing or decreasing the powder charge. Often times during a load work up, I will see groups begin to have a POI shift an inch or so higher each load I go up when shooting at 200 or 300 yards. It's expected, the bullet is going faster with each increase. So if you have a factory FGGM 168 running slow at 2550-2600, and a hand load with the same bullet running 2700 fps, you can easily get a POI difference because of the different velocities.

And I haven't shot a factory loaded rifle round in YEARS!

An update to my experience with the 168 A-max out of my .308. I shot two pigs with it two weeks ago and both dropped quick DRT. I shot a pretty large doe with it on Saturday right at 150 yards. It destroyed both front shoulders, liquified the internal organs. Baseball size exit. I might need to actually lighten up a little bit. Chad, what are your thoughts?

^^^ I think that A-max tore them up good! The bullet did it's job! The A-max bullets make great hunting bullets.

What about the ELD M or the X? I hear the ELD M is the same as an AMax, is that true?

Pretty much. The ELD-M has a consistent thick jacket from tip to base. The ELD-X bullet jacket gets thicker as it gets closer to the base for a more controlled expansion. I've always had good performance on the A-max, and the ELD-M should be very similar. When I spoke to the Hornady tech guys at SHOT show in Vegas, they said the ELD-M was near same as the A-max, but the nose profile was slightly longer to increase the BC. And the newer design polymer tip was added. Also, the ELD-M is held to a tighter tolerances than the ELD-X is in their accuracy standards.

If the M is similar to the AMax, then it can be used for hunting?

I wouldn't hesitate using the ELD-M on a deer or pig.

Great, thanks Chad.

Chad, are you hearing any complaints with the EDL-X not performing as well on our Texas whitetails? We shot 5 Coleman county deer this weekend with the 143gr ELD-X out of 6.5 Creedmoor's and for the first time I'm disappointed with the performance. We had perfect heart shot that didn't exit and left zero blood from POI to where she dropped. We had perfect double shoulder shots that deer ran 100+ yards before dropping. My buddy shot one doe that left blood where she was shot but ran over 200 yards with minimal to no blood and by the grace of God did we find her.

I get the deer all died, but no exits on several of the deer, no blood trails at POI leave me wondering about changing to a different bullet. All of the shots were 75-150 yards, so nothing extreme in distance either.

Yes, I would think the 143 ELD-X should do better than that. It will hold together better than the ELD-M or A-max because of how the jacket of the bullet works. We have recovered several bullets under the skin on a quartering away shot. They looked like perfect expansion and traveled a good distance through the animal. I would think you should get an exit wound on a 143 ELD-X out of a 6.5 CM. If you hit the front shoulder knuckle, I could see it damaging the bullet enough to limit penetration possibly. So not sure on those.

If it happened this weekend maybe it was the moon... or something. I had two well shot deer that didn't bleed for squat, the only way I found them was walking circles in high grass. Had a 100 grain prohunter with a nasty through and through shot bleed little and my old standby 150 grain partition did a less than desirable job, although it did hit a cattle panel about 20 feet before the deer.